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Post by raymondo on Mar 11, 2013 15:52:08 GMT -5
Blah... Maybe I'll have to get serious this summer about this project and self a bunch of corn: to definitively separate the se+ from the su/se. That sounds like a lot of work. Would it mean bagging cobs and moving pollen around by hand?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 11, 2013 16:25:46 GMT -5
That sounds like a lot of work. Would it mean bagging cobs and moving pollen around by hand? It would involve bagging cobs AND tassels... It might be worth the effort though to get a 100% se+ open pollinated sweet corn population. Then I'd only have to worry about inadvertent su pollen getting into the patch.
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Post by 12540dumont on Mar 11, 2013 17:38:21 GMT -5
Joseph, are you talking about the Frosty or Ashworth that I sent?
With the Frosty, I planted every seed you sent. This was a small population. As I recall, only about 60-70 plants With the Ashworth, I still had about 20 seeds left over. It was larger, about 200.
If I have enough seed from the seed donor, I like to plant it all, unless I see something that looks like a flint in a sugar.
I'm really hoping for your se+ next year!
It's 75 here today and the soil has warmed up. I'm starting corn!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 11, 2013 17:57:05 GMT -5
Holly: The LISP Ashworth that you sent back to me had higher percentages of kernels that passed the soak test than what I grew. I attribute it to better germination of the se+ in your warm garden than in my cold one.
I haven't done the soak test on the Frosty that you returned. I'll do that when it gets closer to planting time. I suspect that your Frosty seed will also have higher percentage that pass the soak test than what I grew.
I planted some Frosty that passed the soak test in the 2012 growing season. It was grown with the draft Paradise and has been incorporated into the genepool. I'll do it again this year.
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Post by 12540dumont on Mar 11, 2013 18:22:27 GMT -5
That may be so, as I know cold soil temperature and corn and not compatible. However, I was talking to a farmer in Vermont who transplants all his corn. He says you can "plant seedlings" as long as there is no frost, even if the ground is still cold. You just can't plant seeds.
One of these days, I'm going to trial this.
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Post by DarJones on Mar 11, 2013 22:30:05 GMT -5
It works Holly. I grow corn in the greenhouse in seed start trays and put it out just as soon as we are frost free. I get the earliest corn around. This also avoids crows pulling up the emerging stalks to eat the kernel.
DarJones
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Post by bunkie on Mar 12, 2013 9:15:59 GMT -5
same here. i start the corn in trays or tubs and transplaant. works very well. in fact, in the local stores, many are selling corn transplants up here nowdays!
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Post by RpR on Mar 12, 2013 17:24:04 GMT -5
I have transplanted corn in warm weather, June, and it just sits there for some time not doing anything before it decides to start growing again.
How long does it take your transplants to start growing again.
I seeded early last year, probably will not happen with the weather this year, and while one patch was doa, most others simply took a long time to get going.
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Post by DarJones on Mar 12, 2013 22:21:16 GMT -5
rpr, age of transplants is probably causing you trouble. You have to let corn germinate in a greenhouse, then get no more than 2 inches tall before setting out in the garden. The key is with the primary root. If you do anything that disrupts growth of the primary root, the seedling will stop growing until conditions improve. This can cause you to lose 2 or 3 weeks of growth.
Did I note that the corn plant is unusual in producing one primary root, then a vertical shoot, then secondary roots? The primary root is the key to starting seedlings successfully.
DarJones
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 22, 2013 16:19:06 GMT -5
Yesterday I selected the presumably se+ seed for planting this year. I did the soak test at 85F, for about 16 hours. Then sorted seed to select only the undamaged fully swollen seeds. Then I let them sit (not soaking) in closed bags for another 16 hours, before sorting again. I was really pleased with the extra sit time. It allowed the kernels to sweeten up more, and to more fully manifest the phenotype that I am searching for. I am searching for sweet tasting kernels that quickly absorb moisture, and have a thin delicate skin. Next year I expect to add large kernels to the criteria... Some of the cobs that were descended from flint/dent corn have tiny kernels. I'm thinking I'd like a more robust bite. I finally have a large enough population that I can be more discerning about selection.
I planted some of the selected seed in flats: ear-to-row. The rest (about a pint of seed) will go directly into the field as bulk seed.
I was very pleased with the seed. These are the F3 and F4 generation.
They are descended from Astronomy Domine sweet corn, Long Island Seed Project sweet corn, Hopi flour corn, flint corn, dent corn, flour corn, Cherokee squaw. I have lost most of the colors that were in the ancestors, so I'm left primarily with white and yellow kernels. There are a few kernels with a hint of blue or orange about them. One mother had orange kernels. So we'll see how it shakes out.
Yesterday I planted dehybridized Ambrosia, which I have selected for white only kernels. I believe them to be se+
I also planted some kernels from LISP Ashworth which I believe to be se+. Eventually I'd like to grow LISP Ashworth as a su/se hybrid. That'd give me the sweet taste of a sugary enhanced sweet corn and the reliability of plain old sweet corn.
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Post by 12540dumont on May 22, 2013 19:30:22 GMT -5
Very ambitious! Tell me why you don't like se+
?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 22, 2013 21:36:05 GMT -5
Direct seeded se+ corn germinates unreliably for me in early spring (I suppose due to the cold temperatures and heavy clay-ish soil). Even in warmer weather it can be unreliable.
This year I am going to attempt transplanting (allegedly) se+ corn germinated in ideal conditions indoors. And I'm direct seeding some so that I can compare. Eventually, once I get to homozygous se+, then I'll start working more carefully on improving the percent germination even in cold weather.
It wouldn't matter so much if I didn't care about poisoning my seed with anti-microbial agents. Perhaps I will come across some innocuous treatments, or some clever techniques to improve germination... For example this year I am attempting to pre-sprout the se+ corn, as if I were making bean sprouts. Perhaps a change in technique is all that's required.
I'm also pre-sprouting my watermelon seeds.
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Post by steev on May 24, 2013 23:08:10 GMT -5
My corn transplants, of whatever sort, planted out after danger of cold-damage, are growing like weeds. Granted, my technique is not for a field, but for seed-increase or hobby-farm, it works like a charm; those puppies establish and grow. For small quantities of seed, direct seeding is far too iffy, if only because of the pests.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 25, 2013 18:24:23 GMT -5
Some time ago, we had a discussion about whether the se+ kernels are the quickest drying or the slowest drying on a cob of corn. I believed at that time that they are the quickest to dry. I still believe that due in part to the photos I'm including in this post. When I ran the soak test on DarJones F3 seed of the cross between [Cherokee Squaw and Silver King], I only found one or two kernels that passed the soak test. That seemed strange to me. So I ran the soak test on the F2 seed from my grow-out of that same cross. This is what the cobs looked like shortly after I harvested them two growing seasons ago. I had used a black Sharpie to mark the kernels that were dehydrating the quickest. The kernels with black marks on them, that were dehydrating the quickest, and getting fine wrinkles on them, are also the same kernels that passed the soak test this week. The Sharpie ink survived the soak test. They were sweet and delicate skinned as I have come to expect from se+ sugary enhanced sweet corn. I planted the Cherokee Squaw seed yesterday. I put the F2 seed that passed the soak test in one bed, and the unsorted F3 seed in another. I also planted my sugary enhanced seed that passed the soak test. I pre-germinated them indoors. I used the same procedure as if I were making bean sprouts: Rinse with tap water 2-3 times per day. Then selected the quickest germinating to plant in a couple of rows by themselves. I planted some of the seed in pots ear-to-row. They are germinating, but haven't been moved to the garden yet.
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