If Earth was a spaceship, how would you treat its life support system?
Joined: Oct 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 1,167 Location: Can. Z 5a, 120 ff, urban
Plasticulture without the plastic « Thread Started on Nov 2, 2009, 10:03am »
I normally use various tough wearing plastics in my season extension plans including recycled large water bottle cloches (some of my neighbours throw them out!), polytunnels, row covers, and lowtunnels. However, I'm becoming increasingly leery about plastics but unwilling to give up season extension so was wondering about alternatives.
Of course, there is glass, stone walls, water(?), rotting manure/compost. Anything else?
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 581 Location: New Mexico
Re: Plasticulture without the plastic « Reply #1 on Nov 2, 2009, 10:15am »
Rock used as compost the darker the better.
I have a short season, but great amounts of sun, the night temps are the issue, so I am contemplating a series of ditchs, I could cover at night, with pastic, glass, or woven plants, or even sticks......
I dont want to use plastic much either. I worked on a farm which used plastic row covers, and wed pull it from the fields and dumped it in what I later found our used to be a massive quarry, which over th years was filled with plastic. I know theres types you can reuse, and such, but I dont like that thought......
Id love to get some unbreakable glass, like 2 or more inches thick. my land is pretty remote, Id hate someone to fall through it who steps on it. or a deer or something falling in and smashing my stuff, and itself. But if it was glass that wont break, that would be sweet. scratches and such over the years should be to much a issue, as light would still get through. Plus its sunny nearly daily here, I could alsways flip it up in the day.
From high dessert, New Mexico. A blend of arid conditions and mountainess climates. Working towards being completly self sufficient. In balance with my sorroundings wide awake, and aware. The possibilities of plant breeding and how little credit most give it amaze me. Earth is a living eco-system, and will have a self regulating system of our removal, if neccessary. We must learn to ride the wave
plantsnobin Karen Homegrown Seed Development and Project Coordinator Hip-Gnosis Seed Development Staff member is offline
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 1,128 Location: southern IN
Re: Plasticulture without the plastic « Reply #2 on Nov 2, 2009, 2:48pm »
Telsing, maybe when you get to your new place you can build a sunpit with glass. It really is a dilema, isn't it? With a nice high tunnel we could grow throughout most of the winter, using manure to heat it, but then there is the question of the plastic. A good plastic will last 4 years, but then what? I have Suntuf on my building, has been there since 1998 and still pretty clear, minus the lime scale from our water. But it will still have to be disposed of someday. If/when we find our perfect property, I want to build a multipurpose building. North side will house a summer kitchen, with all the usual equipment for canning & perserving. An area for an evaporator for maple syrup & sorghum, which will also serve to heat the greenhouse which will be on the south side. The greenhouse will have tropical fruit plants, and have attached coldframes for the more hardy plants. It will be a modified pit type. East side will have area for chickens to roost at night, maybe some free range meat rabbits too. West side will have butchering/cellar area for processing our own meats. Now, if only we can find just the right spot...
http://padgettsperennials.blogspot.com www.picasaweb.google.com/plantsnobin Ave last frost May 10, first frost Oct. Generally no snow cover in winter, hot & very humid summers. Don't eat greens. Or Brussels sprouts, or any of that other healthy stuff. Strawberries=pure paradise. Live on 2 acres, daughter next door has 3 acres, and family farm across highway is 196 acres, mostly in hay.
If Earth was a spaceship, how would you treat its life support system?
Joined: Oct 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 1,167 Location: Can. Z 5a, 120 ff, urban
Re: Plasticulture without the plastic « Reply #3 on Nov 2, 2009, 4:02pm »
Sounds lovely Karen. I had forgotten about using animals as heat producers. There was a book whose title I forgot at the moment but it started with Sol-something or other. They great greens all year with the help of a large greenhouse (I think it was plastic) and animals.
plantsnobin Karen Homegrown Seed Development and Project Coordinator Hip-Gnosis Seed Development Staff member is offline
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 1,128 Location: southern IN
Re: Plasticulture without the plastic « Reply #4 on Nov 2, 2009, 6:13pm »
Yes, Sol-Viva, I can't remember the ladies name, I think the property is now derelict. She made some pretty impressive claims, don't know if it was mostly true or wishful thinking. That is a problem when people are passionate about an idea, even if it is a great one, we need facts and figures. No one seems to want to admit that something didn't turn out the way they had hoped. Human nature I guess. I will say that we have kept rabbits in a plastic covered greenhouse-doesn't work to produce heat. Not really the best environment from the rabbits perpective either.
http://padgettsperennials.blogspot.com www.picasaweb.google.com/plantsnobin Ave last frost May 10, first frost Oct. Generally no snow cover in winter, hot & very humid summers. Don't eat greens. Or Brussels sprouts, or any of that other healthy stuff. Strawberries=pure paradise. Live on 2 acres, daughter next door has 3 acres, and family farm across highway is 196 acres, mostly in hay.
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 581 Location: New Mexico
Re: Plasticulture without the plastic « Reply #5 on Nov 2, 2009, 7:38pm »
well Im baffled here, if you had some animals under the plastic, to keep it warmer inside, wouldnt they eat or rip up any plants in there with them???? that is even if it worked well, which I guess your saying it doesnt.
From high dessert, New Mexico. A blend of arid conditions and mountainess climates. Working towards being completly self sufficient. In balance with my sorroundings wide awake, and aware. The possibilities of plant breeding and how little credit most give it amaze me. Earth is a living eco-system, and will have a self regulating system of our removal, if neccessary. We must learn to ride the wave
plantsnobin Karen Homegrown Seed Development and Project Coordinator Hip-Gnosis Seed Development Staff member is offline
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 1,128 Location: southern IN
Re: Plasticulture without the plastic « Reply #6 on Nov 2, 2009, 7:58pm »
SS, when we had rabbits in the greenhouse, they were in cages. It was a tall greenhouse, wood frame with plastic covering it. I had high hopes for it at the time, it was on the east side of a large garage. It was about 42'x30' ish. We ended up taking it down, I didn't have proper heat in it and at that time I was trying to raise annuals. We eventually removed the garage and built our new house there. Nothing like making lots of mistakes along the way so that at least you now what NOT to do the next time. I currently have a building that is about 32'x36. It is kind of half greenhouse, half potting shed/storage. It is all wrong for either purpose really. Not laid out like it should have been, too much wasted space in the greenhouse part with too many doorways. The potting shed part gets too hot in the summer to even work in due to the greenhouse part. Live and learn. Any new building will be carefully thought out, but I know there will be mistakes in it too. You just try to take as many possibilities into account as you can. Oh, and it isn't a good place for rabbits. They can take the cold a lot better than they can take heat, and the humidity is just too high. And even on a cold day, as long as it is sunny, a greenhouse gets too hot for a rabbit.
http://padgettsperennials.blogspot.com www.picasaweb.google.com/plantsnobin Ave last frost May 10, first frost Oct. Generally no snow cover in winter, hot & very humid summers. Don't eat greens. Or Brussels sprouts, or any of that other healthy stuff. Strawberries=pure paradise. Live on 2 acres, daughter next door has 3 acres, and family farm across highway is 196 acres, mostly in hay.
From high dessert, New Mexico. A blend of arid conditions and mountainess climates. Working towards being completly self sufficient. In balance with my sorroundings wide awake, and aware. The possibilities of plant breeding and how little credit most give it amaze me. Earth is a living eco-system, and will have a self regulating system of our removal, if neccessary. We must learn to ride the wave
Joined: Mar 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 879 Location: eastern washington,zone5b,mnts
Re: Plasticulture without the plastic « Reply #8 on Nov 3, 2009, 1:24pm »
that's interesting karen. i had read about using rabbits in the greenhouse in cages, and letting their droppings fall into aa compost below the cages and thaat would creaate the heat. but, having a large greenhouse here, i agree it would be too hot for them, even on winter days with sun. i concur about the heat in the summer too and makes it difficult to transplant and such in the greenhouse. what i ended up doing was using a large umbrella over my work bench. the shade helped immensely!
we had to revamp our greenhouse this year as it collapsed the year before last. just couldn't keep up with shovelling the snow. we're using clear poly sheets that are double thick and have chambers between. expensive, even tho we found a deal on Farm Tech. i love the stuff! and think it will shed the snow much better than the plastic sheathing. we've used some on our sunroom and it's holding up very well after 5 years of heavy snow and sun.
telsing, another cloth type fabric i have been using is reemay. it will protect my greens down to 27F so far! the carrots and beets are still doing well. it won't really hold up with a large amount of snow or freezing rain tho... there are some new reemay type cloths coming out that are stronger now, i've noticed. they hold out the water better. still experimenting here.
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