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Post by templeton on Sept 15, 2011 4:28:57 GMT -5
So how goes progress? Like many posters here, I got enthralled by the possibilities of a pea breeding project from Deppe's book.
A couple of weeks ago i sowed seeds from a wide variety (20 or so) of peas from a contact, including tibetan, albanian, chinese, greek, and other sources and sent away for every purple, yellow and snow pea I could lay my hands on. Most of these I'll just grow out to assess what they are like, and get a bit more seed. One snow pea is from an agricultural research station, a survivor from what they call the "Mildew chamber of death", so it should have some nice disease resistance.
One of the big attractions with pea breeding is the 60-70 day generation time - with a bit of careful juggling, (using the shady back of the house and the new hot house) I should be able to get three generations a year - maybe...
I've been trawling through Deppe's book, where I'm sure I read that it possible to sow fully developed but still green peas, saving the waiting time for them to dry off. Can anyone offer advice on this? T
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Post by raymondo on Sept 15, 2011 6:17:32 GMT -5
I've done it T, to save time. Worked without a problem. I harvested as soon as the pods began to change and sowed there and then.
When you have enough to spare, I'd love some of the Chamber of Death survivors.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 15, 2011 9:40:42 GMT -5
I've been trawling through Deppe's book, where I'm sure I read that it possible to sow fully developed but still green peas, saving the waiting time for them to dry off. Can anyone offer advice on this? Bugs ate the seeds the only time I tried it. I've got two seeds that are presumably a cross between a snow pea and a purple podded pea. None of the yellow X purple crosses took, (and stayed around long enough for me to find the pods after the vine had grown another two feet!)
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Post by robertb on Sept 15, 2011 14:16:02 GMT -5
I had some germinate in the pod this year. I don't think it's hard; I've had broad beans do the same thing.
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Post by templeton on Sept 15, 2011 16:25:46 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Good news - I'm thinking about the next generation while this generation is still germinating! T
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 19, 2011 23:04:42 GMT -5
Here's photos of two peas that Holly sent me: A yellow podded snow pea, and a purple podded snap pea. I have used the purple podded pollen to pollinate some yellow podded flowers. Hoping there is enough time left in the season for the seeds to mature. Too bad I wasn't paying attention when they first started blooming.... It would be easy enough to cover one small patch of yellow peas. Hoping that the offspring will produce red-podded peas in the F2 generation.
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Post by cesarz on Sept 20, 2011 4:32:59 GMT -5
Hi Joseph,
I've just noticed that your peas only have one pod per flowering node. Are they all like that? I thought that trait was undesirable.
Cesar
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 20, 2011 10:01:05 GMT -5
I've just noticed that your peas only have one pod per flowering node. Are they all like that? I thought that trait was undesirable. I don't know. I've never paid attention.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 20, 2011 21:27:24 GMT -5
Joseph, I'll send you a PM, but are you interested in a few of the Red-seeded Biskopen peas? I really wanted to cross them with any other type of pea, but they were so late in producing flowers, that all the other peas had dry pods and died. I may have to experiment with planting another variety late, so i can get the two to flower at the same time.
templeton, to answer your question... I'm not really sure. This was my first year trying to cross them, so i didn't label any pods. I think i may have succeeded in crossing a few yellows and purples, but the seeds have been mixed into the parent population of saved seeds. I will try doing more crosses next spring, but i'm optimistic that there is a chance i could get surprise red's in the F2 generation. I'm really looking forward to using the yellow and purple snap peas bred by Alan Kapulaer. Getting a red snap pea would be really cool.
P.s., does anyone know what happened to Rebsie? I noticed that she never got around to updating her blog this summer. Maybe she just got busy with her book, but i was looking forward to seeing posts about her pea progress this year. Oh, well.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 13, 2011 2:26:45 GMT -5
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Post by raymondo on Nov 13, 2011 14:55:39 GMT -5
Nicely done keen101. Did you use Photoshop or similar to develop your table?
Are you looking to combine any particular traits?
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 13, 2011 16:13:55 GMT -5
Nicely done keen101. Did you use Photoshop or similar to develop your table? Are you looking to combine any particular traits? Yes, Specifically i used GIMP, but it's basically the same as Photoshop, and i could have probably pulled it off using either one. Yeah, there is no way i would have been able to recreate those illustrations from scratch, so i had to modify the existing ones. I think it came out pretty well considering. Yeah, I'd love to combine a lot of these traits eventually. I think one of the biggest obstacles is that many of these interesting and old traits often are field peas, and they don't have much sweetness, so thats one thing to breed into all of them. I think it would be really cool to have a pea with red pods, red seeds, it's flowers in a clump at the top, hyper-tendrils, dwarf, and salmon coloured flowers. But, that's probably going to take awhile. It would also be a shame if that final conglomerate of traits wasn't sweet at all. I'm excited to work with the salmon flowered pea, because it seems like it's so unusual. I'd like to breed it with a purple podded variety and see if it affects the pod color. It would be really interesting if it created a salmon podded pea (even though it's probably unlikely). I'm also curious to know if the trait for the red seeds and the purple seeds is the same, but maybe with one having yellow color underneath and the other having green underneath. Who knows. And of course I'm still fascinated with the fact that if you cross the hyper-tendrils with the tendril-less types you end up with what people call the "parsley pea" where it has the hyper-tendrils but they have all been converted into leaflets. I'm wondering if having that many leaves and leaflets would allow the plants to be more productive and produce more pods.
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Post by templeton on Nov 13, 2011 17:04:55 GMT -5
Keen, I pretty sure pod colour is either purple, green or yellow and either blotchy/streaked or complete, red being purple over yellow. There is a gene for orange pods mentioned in the John Innes database, but I've not seen it mentioned anywhere else. There are a whole heap of different flower colours mentioned there, including rose, salmon and red, I think - unfortuantely seems to be unrelated to pod colour, apart from needing the A gene turn anthocyanin on.
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Post by blueadzuki on Nov 13, 2011 17:57:56 GMT -5
I seem to recall when I asked about it back in colledged that the pod color gene (the one that would make purple/red over green/yellow and the seed coat color gene (pretty much any color red/purple/speckled/camo versus white) are pretty close to each other' They are not the same gene, and it is not impossible to split them, but it is not easy either). Personally I'd love to see what would happen if a pea got both the camo and red seed genes. I imagine a red pea with black streaks and blobs all over it, might be really pretty. BTW how purple are you purple seeded peas. Just noticiably pruple or near black. Ive pumped into a lot of medium purple/purple brown peas, but I think ive only ever seen one purple black one (a selection from austrian speckled).
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 13, 2011 18:43:25 GMT -5
Keen, I pretty sure pod colour is either purple, green or yellow and either blotchy/streaked or complete, red being purple over yellow. There is a gene for orange pods mentioned in the John Innes database, but I've not seen it mentioned anywhere else. There are a whole heap of different flower colours mentioned there, including rose, salmon and red, I think - unfortuantely seems to be unrelated to pod colour, apart from needing the A gene turn anthocyanin on. You are correct templeton, I only included the main traits I'd like to study. I wanted to include both purple pods and red pods, so i placed them where they are. Yes, the red pods are purple with yellow underneath, but if you were to cross a red-podded variety with a purple podded variety then purple would be dominant (even if blotchy), and red would only show up again in the F2 generation. I actually requested an orange podded variety from i think the Gatersleben seed bank, but they must have been low on stock or something and i didn't get any. From what i gather about it though is that it only makes the pods slightly orangish and otherwise are mostly green. I had noticed the John Innes center mentioning a green flowered variety, but i hadn't noticed the salmon or red. I'm sure they are in there though. Yeah, i doubt they would effect any pod color. The seeds i just received recently from George W. (wildseed57) are noticeably purple, but not black. The variety is called "purple passion" and supposedly also has purple pods. But other than that i don't know anything about them or their origin. I will try to post a picture. Here is a picture of the Purple Passion seeds. The photo is large, so I'll only link to it. farm7.static.flickr.com/6237/6338816836_a5f58b0094_b.jpg
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