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Post by canadamike on Apr 8, 2009 19:42:59 GMT -5
Alan, I don't know what to believe. Are they saying the truth? After all they call hybrid what is sometimes not.
Sure looks more like a genotype to me despite what they say. I don't see much difference in kernels. To me, they are all the same. They sure did not segregate back to different types in F-2. We will see.
This is definitely not like the new synergistics where you have different kernels on the cob.
And what does the friggin Q mean anyway??
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mostlypurple
grub
SE Michigan, Kitchen garden, Z 5b-6a
Posts: 86
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Post by mostlypurple on Apr 8, 2009 20:45:45 GMT -5
Can anyone recommend a good text book on sweet corn genetics? I am seriously interested in this.
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Post by Alan on Apr 13, 2009 16:49:23 GMT -5
It should by all means segregate out, your working with three seperate types of corn in one hybrid or "grex", two of the genes are located in the same place, both being mutants, one a mutant of field corn another mutant of the original mutant, and the second gene a mutation of flint corn, they will cross with one another and give you some interesting examples, but dehybridization is an impossibility short of picking out the SE and SU kernels or the SH2 type kernels.
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Post by canadamike on Apr 13, 2009 17:51:27 GMT -5
I know about the theoretical part and the segregation etc... but itis just I do not see anything ''visually''. Some kernels are even more shrunken tan others, but none of them looks like an su or worse, flint or else.
One thing sure, they have the oily look of SU SMOLICE, the polish high oil corn.
Well well, we will see what the F-3 looks like...it is hard to tell the yellows from the whites, but that is kind of normal, even in the fresh corn, before boiling, the yellows are so pale you have to look closely to differentiate them.
One thing that bugs me, Sh2 are though kernels. When you eat Mirai , none of the kernels are hard, it is all nothing but soft ''eat it raw '' tender corn.
A grex???
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Post by Alan on Apr 13, 2009 22:29:43 GMT -5
The seed was saved from the F1? You will plant the F2 this year? If so you should see it segregate this season. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that this is the type of material your working with, you wouldn't/shouldn't notice it in the seed at the moment, but this fall it should start to appear.
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Post by canadamike on Apr 14, 2009 0:05:15 GMT -5
I agree, we will see the F-3 . What I meant and might not have said appropriately in english is that there was no 2 different types of seeds like in the new synergistic, were they say ''contains 25% sh2'' or som'thing like that...
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Post by Alan on Apr 14, 2009 7:18:12 GMT -5
I don't know, without seeing it I can't say for sure but I know that sometimes SE can be hard to differentiate from SH2 by looks alone. As an example, if it weren't for Ruby Queen SE being red it would look the same structurally as Iochief SH2. I hope your onto something new to work with, but hard to say.
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Post by canadamike on Apr 14, 2009 20:30:25 GMT -5
Agreed too. But I have nibbled a lot of these kernels one by one, looked at them raw, cooked and wathever in search for a difference between them, and I have noticed none.
I don't think I am onto anything except strait fun, I suspect some people know about these and have done it.
On the high protein corn though, we might very well be, as I read it tends to augment others....
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Post by Alan on Apr 19, 2009 10:43:11 GMT -5
Howdy mostly purple, sorry I didn't notice your question before, I don't know of any books on sweet corn genetics but there are some papers floating around at the USDA GRIN main sight and at Scijournals, here is a link to one of the papers: crop.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/46/Supplement_1/S-49Look around on their site and you can find some others. Reliable information about corn genetics seems pretty hush, hush, sort of a "trade secret" for the big guys.
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Post by canadamike on Apr 19, 2009 10:46:36 GMT -5
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Post by pugs on Apr 19, 2009 21:04:21 GMT -5
From what I remember reading back when I was in short pants, corn genetics is very odd, if not down right weird. Something about a triploid where the 3 set of chromosomes are rejected out to create the endosperm. Due to this, it is very hard to completely predict what will happen.
Remember though, this is from a foggy memory of something I didn't understand at all at the time.
Pugs
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Post by Alan on Apr 19, 2009 21:23:11 GMT -5
From what I remember reading back when I was in short pants, corn genetics is very odd, if not down right weird. Something about a triploid where the 3 set of chromosomes are rejected out to create the endosperm. Due to this, it is very hard to completely predict what will happen. Remember though, this is from a foggy memory of something I didn't understand at all at the time. Pugs Exactly! This is why corn gets my attention, it is one of the strangest of fruiting plants, a mutant of some type or many mutants, like the human race there is a missing link, lots of genetic defects and mutations, diversity beyond most other crops. It has my full attention!
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Post by spero on May 8, 2009 22:31:58 GMT -5
The Sparkler f1 is a multi-colored se/su. I have selected for se in the f2 generation using a method of marking slower drying kernels. This was suggested to me by Carol Deppe (se kernels dry a little slower than su kernels, so if you harvest not too dry, wait one day, you can see which ones appear to be drying slower and mark them with paint or white out. If this works I will eventually stabilize a synthetic op se version of sparkler corn. I am also in the process of stabilizing Tuxedo (which is an se/se). I am growing out the f3 this year. I hope to be able to offer this as an op se yellow corn variety in a few years. - J. Spero
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Post by canadamike on May 8, 2009 22:53:37 GMT -5
Spero, I am doing the same with Merlin, a homozygous se hybrid. I lost last year's crop to rain as the corn did not pollinate, but we are back at it this year.
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Post by spero on Aug 11, 2009 14:00:52 GMT -5
Does anyone have experience in separating out se from su ? I am developing open pollinated se varieties. In the f2, following an se/su cross, we separated out kernels based on slowness to dry (suggested by Carol Deppe). As seed from these chosen f2 plants matures, I hope to further select to establish an all se strain. I have purchased a Refractometer, and hope to identify sweeter cobs by squeezing juice from a handful of kernels on each cob at harvest time. Has anyone tried this, or does anyone have another method to select out the se in this f3 generation ? - Jonathan Spero
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