I'm not all that concerned about crossing. Technically, all of the plants are the same variety (brown desi type chickpeas I pulled out of bags from an Indian grocery store. Each pot was planted with seed with a similar appearance, pot 1 with "mossy" (tan with heavy black mottling) pot 2 with "stickers" (chickpeas with seed coats so rough they will actually catch on fuzzy cloth like burrs (or why I no longer go through chickpeas while wearing flannel shirts). and 3 with "tinies" (super super small seeds) Therfore I assume that I will mostly get back whatever the pot was sown with (since plants like the plant being pollinated will be it nearest neighbors) And if an insect does manage to get pollen from pot 1 to pot 2 and vice versa (pot 3 is so far behind that I suspect that by the time it flowers, the other two will be done) I migh get some seed with both traits, which would be fine with me.
UPDATE I am now about 1/2 way through harvesting the chickpeas (I'm letting each one stay on the plant until the pod is dead, but taking them in before it full dries, to keep the birds from eating them.) One suprise is that the seed I got back is a lot lighter colored than what went in. The seed I planted was a medium tan, what came out is more of a yellow. The plants really started suffering the moment the temperature rose; maybe the seed went into accelerated maturation. a lot of them have a green tinge still, so that seems the most likey possibility (though you said that chickpeas can cross, and there were some green ones mixed in, so maybe that also contributed (I have no idea when a yellow chickpea and a green chickpea cross what the result is, I'd assume yellow, but I do not know.) One odd thing, it looks like the mottled coat gene does not pass on from generation to generation (a few seeds have some scattered black dots, but most have skins that are completely unmarked) but the one for the super rough skin apparantly does.
I've noticed that there are tremendous differences between desi (kala chana) chickpeas and the kabuli types, and not just in the form of the seed. The kabuli varieties have a distinctly different leaf shape, a distinct leaf color (much more bluish), and are far, far more attractive to browsing pests. I suspect that the compounds which color the flowers of desi chickpeas also alter the palatability of its leaves.
I'm currently growing out 'Black Kabouli' from Fedco Seeds, and I'm very pleased with them. If they produce well enough, and are tasty, I'll not only save seed from them but I'll consider trying to cross them with other varieties next year as well.
Post by 12540dumont on Jul 6, 2012 21:44:33 GMT -5
I harvested my Hanaan pop beans and now just have to hull them. Ditto the Lupinis!
Loved both these crops. No disease, very little water (3x) for the Pop Beans during the season. Only once for the Lupinis. I believe both of these have a future here on the farm. We put both of these in marginal soil without any amendments except endomycorhizzae.
Regarding the Black Kabuli from Washington State, via Fedco a few questions:
1. Does it make Black hummus? 2. What are it's cooking uses? (I like to get my recipes together before planting.) 3. Do I plant it here in Fall? Like Favas or Lupinis?
Also, Atash, your sorghum is coming right along. Please post how to make flour out of buckwheat. As in how in the heck do you get the hull off.
This is my first year growing chickpeas, I'm growing Hannan Popbean also. How do you tell when they are ready to harvest? Right now the pods are these nifty looking green fuzzy bubbles. What do they look like ripe?
Holly, here in Canada where buckwheat flour is common, most of it is NOT hulled. You can get "light" (hull off, presumably) and "dark" (hull on, definitely) flour, but the dark is definitely more common, and to my mind has the more distinctive buckwheat flavour. Even the light flour is somewhat grey looking, so I wonder how completely they actually hull it.
I'm sure the hull gets left on because I've seen it with bits of hull that weren't ground up. They look a bit like insect wings...
Just harvested our Hannan popbean chickpeas today. Pulled the plants up by the roots and hung them in the barn to finish drying down. I'd say we got a pretty good yield out of them. I am really happy and excited. I picked up the pods that fell/tore off and shelled them out onto a paper plate to dry down in the house. Most of the pods had two seeds, I remember reading that Carol Deppe had selected this one for a single seed per pod. I must say it is very satisfying to shake the bundle of plants and here the rumbling rattle of the beans in the pods. Neat, neat crop, and you can plant it in March!
Post by 12540dumont on Jul 23, 2012 16:58:53 GMT -5
Ox, I got the Lupini from Grow Italian, but I have plenty to share. PM me.
I also got some from Ray, the USDA and the Desert Legume project. Thanks to all of them. I'm keeping this mix separate as they may be more bitter than the others. The ones from the Desert are not rated for bitterness. Remember lupinis take soaking before you eat them. In Italy, they are served as snacks, little salty things that fill you up and make you thirsty. I'm hoping on canning them next season when I have a gazillion.
My Hanaan's are dry and in the freezer. Carol wrote to me and I promised I would pass on what she said....
Please don't ruin your version of the variety by selecting for more than one bean per pod. That will NOT increase the yield of weight. All it will do is divide the yield up into a much more variable batch of little beans that will be impossible to parch properly without elaborate sizing and popping separately in many different-sized batches. In addition, it is big popbeans that make a nice snack food. The material I started with had numbers per pod ranging from mostly 3 to mostly 1. (All with pods about this size, so you gain/lose nothing in yield with respect to seed number; you just divide the same yield up differently.) I worked hard to get a variety that was plants all with mostly 1 large seed/pod, and that is part of the definition of Hannan.
However, thanks for mentioning this, as I don't think I've included the info about the 1 big seed/pod being part of the def of Hannan or essential to it's being a good snack food. Clearly a critical omission I should correct.
Also, I strongly recommend against growing Hannan within a mile of any other garb. This isolation is more important than with every other garb/bean on the planet. Reason: crosses will not show up at all in the first generation, but won't pop, and will break your teeth. With other varieties, if you have an outcross every thousand seeds you can often live with it. It might be a bit differerent, but when soaked and cooked, it doesn't hurt anything. But if you eat all thousand popbeans as popbeans and have a single crossed bean, you will either risk losing a tooth, or have to eat so gingerly as to destroy the experience of eating the whole batch.
I plan to grow the Hanaan's every other year. Next year I'm going to trial the heck out of garbs. I've ordered everything I can get my hands on, desi, kabuli, black, yellow and green.
Like you Ox, I loved this crop. Easy peasy. I believe I have enough types for three 50' rows. Which means eventually I'll have enough to share.
So far I am happy with the Hannans. I don't see the need to seek any further. I am highly confident that there is not another garbanzo within many miles of the farm. I had noticed that some few of the pods had two beans in them. The vast majority of mine are still hanging in the pods in the barn to dry.
Post by 12540dumont on Jul 25, 2012 10:32:47 GMT -5
Okay before I forget, Ray says that with an ultraviolet light you can check lupins for sweetness. The bitter ones look pink under the light.
I'm going to do other garbanzos ever other year with the pop beans so that they don't cross. I'm going to have to start doing this with my regular beans anyway. There's only so much farm to go around and the bees have been very active.
I found a cross in my filet beans today. One of those dragon tongue type beans with the striped shell turned up in the filets. It's an interesting cross....sort of like cross a Frenchy with a Tierra Del Fuego.