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Post by DarJones on Oct 8, 2010 22:37:51 GMT -5
I picked the last few ears from the Cherokee Squaw X Silver King today. There is one single ear that is pure white. I've found from the other ears harvested that white kernels will darken as the seed matures so I am NOT calling this a white ear yet. The rest of the corn shows the purple/blue color similar to the picture above.
Pollination was only about 50% on the earliest to tassel Cherokee Squaw and was maybe 10% for the ears I harvested today. There is still plenty of seed to work with next year. The poor pollination was a result of limited overlap between the two varieties. Silver King tasseled about 5 days earlier. Even so, it produced some pollen all the way up to the 7th day which gave about 2 days overlap with Cherokee Squaw.
Because of the odd genetics, I may plant the F1 seed and more Silver King next year in a backcross to stabilize the white seed genetics. I'm still debating on this. Maybe a purple se+ corn would be marketable. At the milk stage, it is all white, but turns color as the seed mature.
Lessons learned: Plant Cherokee Squaw first. Have lots of pollinator plants. Expect the unexpected colorwise.
DarJones
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Post by DarJones on Oct 14, 2010 20:24:07 GMT -5
I finished shelling the F1 seed from crossing Cherokee Squaw X Silver King. One ear was fully white. One small nubbin from the same stalk was fully white. I have about a quart of seed that is still too wet to store in the freezer. It is in a tray to dry.
Interesting trivia, the cob of the white ear was white. One cob of a purple ear was white. The rest of the cobs were red. I had carefully selected the Cherokee Squaw seed to be ONLY from white cobs though the seed could have been pollinated by stalks with red cobs when I grew it last year. Granted that my sample size is not large enough to draw conclusions, but it seems the genetics are significantly skewed. There may be an effect going on associated with the seed color. It will be interesting to see how it segregates next year.
There were absolutely no sweet kernels in this years seed. This is not really significant because I grew it isolated last year. There should not have been any contamination with sweet corn pollen which is the expected result.
There is an interesting trait in Cherokee Squaw. It results in super easy to shell corn. Most of the ears were difficult to very difficult to shell because they are still full of water. One ear carried the easy shell trait and the kernels just rolled off the cob. It was a very well filled ear with nice deep kernels. This trait is really nice in a shelling corn. I may pursue it in future growouts. I don't know if it would be desirable in a sweet corn.
I've thought quite a bit about next years crosses with this corn. I think I will backcross at least part of the seed to Silver King. This will give saturation with se+ genes and a higher level of homozygous seed to work with in the third generation. Since I want to avoid some of the negative traits from Silver King, I will separately grow out several hundred plants that can self-pollinate. This should produce mendellian segregation of 1 se+ kernel in 16 but will allow me to maximize the desirable traits from both parents.
I am going to try stabilizing two lines from this seed. A purple se+ on white cobs and a white se+ on white cobs. The purple on white may be difficult since purple seed color seems to be heavily linked with red cobs.
I've also evaluated the genetic base of the corn I've grown so far. There are enough diverse genetics in the pool to work with so long as I am careful not to use tight restrictions going forward. Still, I can easily produce more F1 seed next year by having my MIL plant a row of Cherokee Squaw next to her Silver King. She grows 4 or 5 rows about 100 feet long each year. Growing out more seed so I can select from a more diverse gene pool makes sense and having backup seed in case of a crop failure also makes sense.
DarJones
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 14, 2010 22:45:00 GMT -5
fusionpower: Sounds like an interesting breeding project with lots of interesting genetics.
I've been thinking about not keeping all my seeds in one place, and about keeping a backup "seed vault" somewhere other than at home. I wonder what would be a good storage container? I've been wondering about PVC pipe buried under a marker monument.
I guess there is always the tribe: The close neighbors and kin with whom I am swapping seeds on a regular basis.
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Post by DarJones on Oct 15, 2010 1:59:50 GMT -5
You can store corn 2 or 3 years in a sealed buried glass jar. Just be careful or the weevils and such will have most of it destroyed. You can prevent damage by sealing a container of seed, freezing it a week or so, then put it out somewhere safe.
Storing seed works a lot better if they are thoroughly dry and in a sealed container in a deep freeze. My best suggestion would be to see if someone would be willing to loan you freezer space for a few gallons of seed.
I get 1 gallon pickle jars with lids for a dollar or two at local restaurants. You'd be surprised how much you can seal in one of them.
DarJones
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 29, 2010 17:15:54 GMT -5
I received a package of corn seeds today of this variety. The color is a glorious purple. Thanks.
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Post by DarJones on Nov 7, 2010 8:09:48 GMT -5
This post is to correct something that I simply did not investigate thoroughly enough in the past and therefore need to address. This is the difference between seedcoat, endosperm, embryo, pericarp, aleurone, and epidermis.
A tomato has an epidermis. It is the skin that I so much hate to eat, especially from the commercial varieties that have such thick skin. The epidermis of tomato comes in two common colors, clear, and yellow. Clear epidermis is one of the traits involved in a pink tomato. Yellow epidermis is what gives a reddish orange color to the fruit.
A tomato has a pericarp. It is the tissue just beneath the epidermis that expands to contain the seed. The pericarp is where blue tomatoes accumulate anthocyanin. When we eat a tomato, the pericarp and the seed locules are what we consume.
Most plants produce seed in one form or another. A seed is the dormant reproductive structure that most plants use to reproduce sexually i.e. with pollen and ovules. A typical seed has a seedcoat, aleurone layer, endosperm, and embryo.
The seedcoat is a thick layer of tissue intended to protect the endosperm and embryo from harm. It often contains natural chemicals that prevent germination until environmental conditions are acceptable for the seed to grow. A corn seed has a seedcoat and that is where I goofed. I confused the seedcoat with the pericarp. They are NOT the same. The corn seedcoat can contain small amounts of pigment, particulary red. Most other pigments do not accumulate in the seedcoat.
Just beneath the seedcoat of many kinds of seed is a thin layer of specialized tissue called aleurone. It is responsible for regulating the release of stored sugars from the endosperm. Aleurone is a protein layer that often contains pigments. In corn, these pigments are the source of most of the color variations we can see.
Many kinds of seed contain nutrient reserves which are referred to as endosperm. This tissue is unique because it can be either haploid or triploid with either one or three complete sets of chromosomes. The endosperm contains starch and some protein that will feed the embryo as it grows. A very few seed such as some species of orchid do not have a true endosperm, and have to rely on other methods to feed the growing embryo and developing plant. Some types of seed absorb all of the endosperm into the cotyledons. Beans are an example of a seed that does not have attached endosperm, instead relying on the cotyledons to store starch and protein reserves.
Seed contain an embryo which is the part of the seed that can grow into a new plant. It is composed of lipids (fat like substances), protein, minerals, and just enough nutrients to initiate growth. The embryo in most seed pull nutrients from the endosperm in a process that involves the aleurone layer producing amylase to convert starch into sugar. Once the endosperm is exhausted, the plant usually sheds the mostly empty seedcoat.
So there you have it.
epidermis pericarp seedcoat aleurone endosperm embryo
DarJones
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Post by Alan on Nov 9, 2010 18:38:26 GMT -5
If you guys are really interested in Pericarp, Allurone, and Endosperm colors and how they relate to the taste of the corn check out Carol Deppes new book; The Resilient Gardener. No reason to reinvent the wheel when the natives and Carol have done our homework for us.
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Post by DarJones on May 19, 2011 23:58:24 GMT -5
So the saga continues this year.
I planted one row about 100 ft long of Cherokee Squaw X Silver King F1 seed in the garden yesterday. With 4 seed per hill and 15 inches between hills, that should work out to about 150 good ears of corn. Breeding objective with this round of corn will be to select all of the sweet phenotype kernels and grow them out next season. Of the sweet kernels, 1/4 will be se+ which is the desired trait. Segregation in this year's plants should be minimal. I expect that most of the stalks should be very similar. The only major segregating genes should be Sugary and Sugar Enhanced.
Lets see how it turns out.
Darrel Jones
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 20, 2011 12:23:06 GMT -5
If you guys are really interested in Pericarp, Allurone, and Endosperm colors and how they relate to the taste of the corn check out Carol Deppes new book; The Resilient Gardener. No reason to reinvent the wheel when the natives and Carol have done our homework for us. I don't have Carol Deppes Book, but i'd like to know what she say's about how the colors affect flavor. Last year when i had that jar of purple corn-husk water (anthocyanin water) i noticed that when poured onto a plant that it seemed to feed a type of fungi really well. After googling about Anthocyanins more, it seems that they are in fact a type of sugar. If that's the case, then i would assume that red sweet corn would always taste better than white sweet corn, but i'm not sure. I seem to remember in another thread joseph saying that he tasted a red seeded variety that seemed to taste like cherries. When i had my jar of anthocyanin water it kind of smelled a little like cherries/grape juice, so i have to wonder if that's where the flavor came from... p.s. this isn't really related to the discussion, but i thought it was cool that my idea that anthocyanins could be used as cheap solar panels, seems like it might be correct. www.google.com/events/sciencefair/projects/harvest_solar_power_with_fruit_dyes.html#
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 20, 2011 13:39:26 GMT -5
I'm wondering how and if the anthocyanins have "sweet" in them. As in, would they activate the sweet receptors on the tongue. That might have an effect on the flavor?
I followed that link to the project slide program. Fascinating stuff to say the very least. I hope I remember it when I go start improving our panels.
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Post by DarJones on May 22, 2011 14:40:05 GMT -5
I planted pre-germinated seed that had soaked up water in a cup for about 4 days. They were not covered with water, just had enough to maintain moisture levels. The result is visible seedlings showing up today. So far, it is only about 1 in 10 hills showing growth.
DarJones
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 22, 2011 15:04:25 GMT -5
I planted pre-germinated seed that had soaked up water in a cup for about 4 days. They were not covered with water, just had enough to maintain moisture levels. The result is visible seedlings showing up today. So far, it is only about 1 in 10 hills showing growth. DarJones So that's like 4 days to emergence? Very nice. I think I'll try that with my problematic se+ seed. Thanks!
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 22, 2011 23:59:25 GMT -5
Our corn is up a couple of feet now. We dusted lightly with a 50/50 blend of blood and bone meal.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 24, 2011 12:06:18 GMT -5
I planted one row about 100 ft long of Cherokee Squaw X Silver King F1 seed in the garden yesterday. Darrel Jones Yesterday I planted the same seed courtesy of Darrel. It is an immensely pretty corn. I planted 3 rows of about 40 seeds each. Plant spacing at about 1 foot. Row spacing at 2 feet. In the next row over I planted the white F2 kernels from Ambrosia se+ sweet corn. I haven't yet decided what I'll do with the Ambrosia if the fertility times overlap: whether I'll detassel the Ambrosia, or allow it to contribute pollen to the patch.
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Post by DarJones on Jun 4, 2011 15:38:33 GMT -5
The corn is now a foot tall. From May 18 to June 4 is 18 days. That is pretty good growth considering.
DarJones
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