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Post by mjc on Aug 26, 2010 7:35:53 GMT -5
I want to add a couple of barnvelders to my flock...but for some reason they have gotten extremely popular around here and now the prices are outrageous (a year or so ago they were 'normal', now they are twice that). I'd rather get a couple of local birds, because I don't want enough to fill out a complete chick order from any of the mail order hatcheries.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Aug 26, 2010 10:57:13 GMT -5
On another note, I'm kinda interested in maybe having a pure strain of Amerucauna. Arucauna would be preferable, but as I understand it, they probably no longer exist. Any one with thoughts on this? The Arucana's that are found on hatchery lists are not the ones from Inca times. There is a reason as I recall from reading poultry genetics why this breed is on the American Livestock Breed Conservancy "Study" list. A lethal gene if I remember correctly to do with the Rumpless (lack of any tail whatsoever) attribute. This is a throwback to Dinosaurs and we all know what happened to them. The reproductive rates were the worst I've ever seen. Stick with the hatchery version if you're having success with them.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Aug 26, 2010 15:56:04 GMT -5
Yea, I read that about the "lethal gene" myself. Don't suppose you know exactly what that means do you? I realize it's deadly... but to the individual? the breed?
I finally got the time to check out Henderson's Handy Dandy Chicken Chart. I'm thinking the best you could go with for dual purpose, get lots of eggs even in winter, and hot/cold tolerant are as follow:
Sussex Rhode Island Red New Hampshire Delaware
They also say that Leghorns are heat tolerant egg machines.
What do you knowledgeable folks have to say about this list? I haven't seen any of these breeds available around here except for the RIR. I'm thinking maybe I could pick some up on the road to Indiana?
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Post by mjc on Aug 26, 2010 17:19:06 GMT -5
Overall, the 'lethal gene' means at least 1/4 mortality of all chicks...so the breed as a whole is going to be a low production breed.
And it is a rather immediate lethality...like 1/4 of all the fertilized eggs laid will never hatch...
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Aug 26, 2010 19:12:09 GMT -5
Jo, Sussex are not popular except in England. I've never seen a New Hampshire and I've owned one bad imitation of a Delaware that came from McMurrays.
You live in a hot climate. Stick with the breeds that are recommended for the south. The heavier breeds with thick plumage developed for the northeast don't do well in the southern summers I'm told. I've spent many nights online with fanciers down south crying because they've lost their birds to heatstroke.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Aug 29, 2010 18:12:16 GMT -5
I was thinking of these breeds more for Telsing. We are gonna have to stick with what we've got at the moment, though we may acquire some Dorking from a lady near us.
But now that you mention it, I sure would like to hear if you've had any experience with the breeds we DO have!
Amerucauna (NOT pure breed from what I read) Rhode Island Red Barred Rock Orpington, buff
I haven't really put any emphasis into determining breed purity at this point. Right now it's more important that we get enough ladies laying enough eggs that we can offset their food costs. So far, we are eating eggs and birds and LOVING it! Still that is a minimal offset...
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Post by mnjrutherford on Aug 29, 2010 18:14:03 GMT -5
Overall, the 'lethal gene' means at least 1/4 mortality of all chicks...so the breed as a whole is going to be a low production breed. And it is a rather immediate lethality...like 1/4 of all the fertilized eggs laid will never hatch... YIKES!!! OK, well that totally puts me off of trying to get a pure breed on these birdies. They are just fine just the way they are!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Aug 29, 2010 18:18:34 GMT -5
I want to add a couple of barnvelders to my flock...but for some reason they have gotten extremely popular around here and now the prices are outrageous (a year or so ago they were 'normal', now they are twice that). I'd rather get a couple of local birds, because I don't want enough to fill out a complete chick order from any of the mail order hatcheries. Oh yea! Barnvelders and Astralorps... Those look pretty good. But again, no funds to acquisition. Does Santa Clause bring chickens for Christmas?
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Post by lavandulagirl on Aug 29, 2010 21:24:51 GMT -5
I love my Barred Rock. She's the top of the flock, vocal, smart, and prolific egg-wise. Plus, she's pretty. I wouldn't eat her, but if we leaned that way, she's certainly not as heavy as my Australorp.
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Post by Alan on Sept 1, 2010 23:02:51 GMT -5
I think it is of no use to be racist. For chicken,in general,people tend to want their race 'pure',often resulting in strong inbreeding with all the negative implications it can have. Sometimes I just go to see a neighbour to see if he has a spare rooster,putting the old one in the soup. With the offspring I do some selection and eventually some inbreeding,to try to get a type that pleases me,but after some time(a few years)it's time for going out to find a new rooster. Personally,I like to do some breeding so I have a kind of dwarf type mix that go easily sitting on the eggs,so I don't have to go trough the incubator thing.For eggs the are not so very good because if I take the eggs,often they end up to want to sit on eggs that are no more there and they stop laying for a while.But you can manage it by eating only part of the eggs Any way I eat more the birds then the eggs.(I have to,if not the population go out of controll ) My thoughts exactly on almost all livestock. Unless you are determined to be a purist and preservationist approach it just like mass crossing in plant breeding. Pick out four or five things you really like and let the genes run amock. If your somewhere and see a new rooster of a different or similar breed or an extra hen that you like, pick it up and put it with the flock. Select accordingly. For dual purpose my selections would be. Orpingtons, Americaunas, Barred Rocks, and Rhode Island Reds all mixed together into one Homegrown Goodness Amalgamut (amalglamated Mutt!) Should produce meat and eggs, selection may be needed for broodiness which is always a problem with larger birds. Bantam blood can help solve that.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 2, 2010 7:53:51 GMT -5
Well, that is our flock precisely. So, Alan, our flock is currently divided with the Rocks and RIR in one coop and the Amerucauna (really Easter Eggers according to standards) and buff Orps in the other coop.
How would you start breeding them out?
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Post by seedywen on Sept 3, 2010 14:33:33 GMT -5
If you currently are keeping the Rocks and RIR in one coop, there's potential for cross-breeding to obtain sex-linked chicks. This happens to also be my current backyard breeding project. (The latest in a list of homestead dairy goat, rabbit, duck and chicken breeding projects A RIR rooster bred to a Barred Rock female produces chicks that when hatched can be identified by color and/or markings as male and female. There are several other notable sex-link crosses which have RIR roosters crossing with White Rocks, Columbia Rocks, Silver Lace Wyandottes or Delawares. The crosses from these purebreeds usually have hybrid vigor if starting from healthy, vigorous birds with certain desired trais. I've tried raising/breeding small flocks of Buff Orpingtons and Barnevelders even Salmon Favorelles but efforts to maintain the flocks from one generation to the next, for me personally were somewhat a bust. During the time I was experimenting with these breeds, I was also comparing notes with about a dozen other people who went in on the same bulk hatchery order for heritage chicks on the same bulk hatchery order. As our community is quite isolated, it is relatively expensive to obtain chicks other than the few breeds/hybrids from the one hatchery that our local feed store orders from. Five years later don't know anyone who managed to keep their heritage flocks going among this group of experienced poulty keepers. Of the 40 chicks I raised from five breeds, it was only the Rocks(Buff, Partridge, Barred) that survived in any numbers to give me a small bevy of breeding stock. I've had Astrolorpes, Amercuanas etc. most of which I quite enjoyed for different reasons but it was more difficult to obtain quality chicks than the RIR and Rocks. This spring I took a four hour ferry ride to Vancouver Island and back after swapping two dozen Silver Appleyard duck eggs for another breeder's non-production Rhode Island Reds. Haven't yet obtained more than a few new Barred Rocks so this coming year, will concentrate on keeping the ten RIR hens and two roosters going. As you may have guessed, there were an additional ten roosters...hence wanting sex-link chicks!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 3, 2010 19:21:34 GMT -5
Wow. ok, I'm totally floored! So, at this point in time all we are really concerned about is selling enough eggs and eating enough birdies and eggs ourselves to equal out the feed bill which is about $90 a month at the moment. We are supplementing as well. The eating birds are getting a TON of pear peelings right now. I'm wondering how that will affect the quality and flavor of the meat! So far, we get 5 or 6 eggs a day, but they are only 5 months old. As I understand it, they are starting pretty early.
Since we aren't looking to breed at the moment (especially since it sounds a tad more involved than we are capable of dealing with) do you think we have a decent mix of birdies?
Nearly forgot! Is it cool to keep them together the way they are? I don't want to develop the lethal gene thing at all...
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Post by seedywen on Sept 5, 2010 9:40:41 GMT -5
It seems that you do have a good mix of chickens to start out with.
Sorry, if I overwhelmed you with too much information.
Learning to keep poultry healthy and happy and laying lots of eggs, is a learning curve in itself. Your chickens are eating a ton of pear peelings? Mine are eating blackberries.
They jump up as high as they can to get the berries around their outdoor run. Then when I'm picking on the other side of the fence in the pumpkin patch, I cut off the branches near the ground with dirty berries and throw them over the fence. Lots of excitement, every time a new branch flies over!
Basically my breeding efforts over the years could be summarized as breeding the best to the best for whatever traits are most desired.
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Post by nuts on Sept 5, 2010 16:34:31 GMT -5
What's the problem of a lethal gene? Normally such a gene tend to disappear from a population.
If you cross two individus that carry the lethal gene,in the next generation only 2/3 of the individuals carry the lethal gene,after the 1/4 mortallity The next generation,only 1/2 carry it,after 1/9 mortallity The next generation 6/15 carry it,after 1/16 mortallity. and so on
As you see,the presence of the gene decreases slowly,but the mortallity decreases rather fast.
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