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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 16, 2010 17:19:53 GMT -5
On my farm there is an age component to what type of corn people tend to ask for. Older men usually ask for that old corny taste. Mothers with children tend to ask for sugary. People throwing parties ask for a blend.... I don't know how they think they are going to tell once it's in the pot.... Men in their 40's can't make up their mind...
Sweet corn from the grocery store that I have tested runs around 5%-9% sugar.
I wouldn't be disappointed if what I end up marketing is an F1 hybrid in which only 25% of the kernels are sugary enhanced and the rest provide that old corny taste.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 16, 2010 17:55:31 GMT -5
I too am curious to know what your overall goal is. My highest goal is to live as a sustenance farmer: To never leave my village, and to rarely leave my farm. When I achieve that I can die having accomplished the most noble career I can aspire to.... A sustenance farmer grows his own seed, or swaps seeds with the neighbors, so as a preliminary step towards becoming a sustenance farmer, I am developing locally adapted genetically diverse land-races for all of the crops that are valued by my customers. (I won't be working on okra any time soon.) There is a farmer lady nearby with whom I am collaborating. And my father and I are all the time swapping seeds. Sweet corn, tomatoes, potatoes, and cucumbers are the most sought after crops that I grow so those are the crops I am paying extra attention to. So far my potatoes are a flop... Because the scab and bugs get after them so bad that I am embarrassed to take them to market, and if I do take them I sell them as seconds. Peas and green beans I don't pay much attention to... If I add a new variety that's fine... If I don't that's fine too, they grow acceptably as is. This coming year I expect to put a lot of work into selecting tomato and watermelon land-races for my farm. I'm currently collecting tomato and watermelon seeds. I figure when I get around 60 to 100 varieties of each that aughta be enough to create a bang-up land-race. I consider my current tomatoes to be a proto-landrace... Containing some diversity, but not enough for my liking, and not all that well adapted to my farm. One nice thing about inbreeding plants like peas, beans, and tomatoes is that the land-race is complete after the first year's selection.
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Post by johno on Dec 16, 2010 20:07:57 GMT -5
This coming year I expect to put a lot of work into selecting tomato and watermelon land-races for my farm. I'm currently collecting tomato and watermelon seeds. I figure when I get around 60 to 100 varieties of each that aughta be enough to create a bang-up land-race. I consider my current tomatoes to be a proto-landrace... Containing some diversity, but not enough for my liking, and not all that well adapted to my farm. One nice thing about inbreeding plants like peas, beans, and tomatoes is that the land-race is complete after the first year's selection. Isn't a landrace an interbreeding mix, not just a mix? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Interesting notion. I hadn't thought too much about landrace inbreeders. Anyway, I can definitely contribute tomatoes. Are you taking a shotgun approach, or do you have criteria? I'll have to dig around, but maybe there are watermelon seeds here that you could use, too. I grew several types at once 2 or 3 years ago that I haven't worked with since. Jemez and Desert King are good ones, as is Moons & Stars red.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 16, 2010 21:02:39 GMT -5
Isn't a landrace an interbreeding mix, not just a mix? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Interesting notion. I hadn't thought too much about landrace inbreeders. For crops that are highly inbreeding like wheat, peas, beans, and tomatoes, I consider it to be a land-race if a half dozen or more varieties are grown together and saved as a group rather than as individual varieties.... There may be some small amount of cross-pollination, but the same varieties are basically represented each year. Anyway, I can definitely contribute tomatoes. Are you taking a shotgun approach, or do you have criteria? I'll have to dig around, but maybe there are watermelon seeds here that you could use, too. I grew several types at once 2 or 3 years ago that I haven't worked with since. Jemez and Desert King are good ones, as is Moons & Stars red. Thanks. I take a shotgun approach to out-crossers like watermelon, and a selective approach to in-breeders like tomatoes. For example with tomatoes I have been asking for "your earliest slicing/canning tomato". I've had mixed results doing so, because what may be early in other people's gardens hasn't yet been earlier in my garden than plain old DX52-12 that I have grown for ages. My mountainous desert growing conditions are somewhat uncommon and DX52-12 was selected from hundreds of varieties as the best for my valley. That was decades ago, I keep looking for something better adapted just in case. My tentative strategy for tomatoes this year is: Take two seeds (maybe three) from every packet that is rumored to be an early slicer... Toss them into a common lot. Plant them and grow to maturity without thinning. Select during the growing season into one of my land-races. Earliest (regardless of size) Early Slicers Main Season Slicers/Canners Anything else that I fancy. I figure that seed will not be saved for 75% of the tested plants... Unless I decide to make a booby prize land-race. I have not been saving cherry tomato seeds. Maybe this will be the year. This year I also have seeds from a few wild tomato varieties. Perhaps I will feel inclined to do something with them. I'm thinking that developing an out-crossing tomato would be really clever. It could be as easy as finding a blossom type that attracts my indigenous pollinators. If I really wanted to be industrious I'd develop a canning tomato that could be direct seeded and produce an abundant crop in my fields. That would be highly lucrative... To grow my most sought after crop without all the labor, equipment, and expense of transplants.
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Post by Alan on Dec 16, 2010 21:23:22 GMT -5
This year I also have seeds from a few wild tomato varieties. Perhaps I will feel inclined to do something with them. I'm thinking that developing an out-crossing tomato would be really clever. It could be as easy as finding a blossom type that attracts my indigenous pollinators. i]
Wild tomatoes are very good outcrosses as are many of the potato leaf varieties, start looking there and you will find what your after, that's how I facilitate a good portion of my tomato grex crosses. Another trick I learned, plant lots of borage amongst your tomatoes, this brings in not only honey bees (which can't work the flowers of most tomatoes) but also Halicid bees which can work the flowers.
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Post by seedywen on Dec 17, 2010 16:12:10 GMT -5
Joseph, Your experiments are very interesting to me. I've aimed a food(vegetable/fruit) self sufficiency for the past thirty years. However I've also be growing commercially for the past ten, which tended to 'hang' me up on growing for a(dare I say it,ha!ha!) pampered public.
Now that am retiring from 'selling' and accomodating the tastes of others, it opens the door to experimenting more with plant breeding and less adherance to trying to get, vegetables, true to named varieties.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Dec 19, 2010 21:17:46 GMT -5
That photo is amazing. Our winter is very cold very early. We had lots of late insects this season, so I'm hoping that the early freeze will kill at least some of the hoppers, beetles, etc that are currently in ground. The guineas have helped keep the numbers down as well, I'm sure. But when corn growing season comes round again, I want them to have as little competition as possible. We will have to fence out the chickens from the wax test plot, but they won't roam as far as the "big" field. We'll be growing Dar's seed and some sort of sweet there. I'm getting excited. We will start planting the second week of April unless something really strange happens. The end of our planting season is May 15. Just around the corner!
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Post by DarJones on Dec 19, 2010 23:20:22 GMT -5
WHOA!!!!
Hold ze Horses!
It is not even winter yet! Let us at least enjoy the cold weather for a few more weeks before you talk about the "end of our planting season".
DarJones
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 20, 2010 3:18:09 GMT -5
We will start planting the second week of April unless something really strange happens. The end of our planting season is May 15. Just around the corner! Weird... I start spring planting a month before, and am still planting a month after: From the middle of March to the middle of June. I guess if I count onions I never really stop planting. Seems like I am sticking a few hundred bulbs in the ground every couple of weeks all summer long.
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Post by flowerpower on Dec 20, 2010 6:54:20 GMT -5
That photo is amazing. Our winter is very cold very early. Very cold? In Zone 8? You gotta be kidding. What happened, did it drop below 70? You know I love ya, Jo. But it is 19 here at the moment. And it won't be warming up anytime soon. Maybe by May. lol Joseph, the only plum I ever get volunteers that produce fruits is San Marzano. The seedlings appear pretty early too.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Dec 20, 2010 7:42:32 GMT -5
ACK Called out! ;D Look, I was born in Florida and lived most of my life in sunny California... Trust me Lynn, 19F might just as well be the North Pole! And guys, I was talking about corn planting... with everything else going in and out, I'm still planting some of the winter greens I've received from Telsing, Frank, and Jack. I even have volunteer broccoli coming up! Planting season never ends! It's gonna be a FABULOUS Christmas! But, I'm still excited about the corn... ;D
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 20, 2010 23:41:37 GMT -5
And guys, I was talking about corn planting... Ooops. OK then. I plant corn from May 5th to June 30th. (Average last frost about May 25th) I don't always get a harvest from my late planting... But when I do, I am the only one in town with fresh corn. And that is a very good position to be in.
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Post by flowerpower on Dec 21, 2010 7:08:31 GMT -5
I would plant about the same time as Joseph. I do start corn in large pots about 2 weeks before. Just too many creatures who love corn around here for me to direct seed. I did plant some SE corn a little late this yr. I did get some nice tasty ears in September. Even if you get nothing, you chop them down and use (or sell) them for fall decorations.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Dec 21, 2010 15:52:33 GMT -5
It's sorta interesting now that I'm reading it... corn isn't supposed to be a "sensitive" crop like say, chia. Yet you guys aren't all that much further north of me and you're just starting to plant when our planting season is nearly done?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 22, 2010 10:56:12 GMT -5
My garden is at about 5,000 feet elevation. It is surrounded by 10,000 foot mountains. The cold air from the mountains runs down hill until it collects in the valley where my garden is located. Due to the typically clear skies there is plenty of cold air. I don't have that glorious ocean nearby to moderate temperatures.
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