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Post by steev on Feb 3, 2016 3:03:59 GMT -5
I think I've got ~400' of spuds, so far; all pretty generic: French Fingerling; Russian Banana; something white; Burbank Russet; Yukon Gold; and something blue; just whatever comes to hand in my produce market.
I'm more concerned with out-producing the gophers, than I am with seeds, at this time.
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Post by nathanp on Feb 3, 2016 6:36:09 GMT -5
In general it is not too hard to tell. Diploid berries generally are narrower and pointed. Leaf shapes and plant sizes are generally smaller. Anything with commercial breeding in it's past is probably tetraploid. I say 'generally' because this does not hold 100% true. There was a DNA study done a few years ago where about 30% of south american S. phureja diploids turned out to not be diploid at all (some triploid, others tetraploid)
The only way to really tell for sure would be either DNA test or karyotype them with a powerful microscope and look at the meiosis. I believe Bill W has done the latter method.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 5, 2016 8:40:26 GMT -5
There are differences between different ploidy levels. Diploids evolve much faster. I think that is what Joseph is alluding to as regards the rumor regarding diploids being easier to breed. Higher levels of ploidy result in redundancy which is a mixed blessing. One interesting benefit is that you can have multiple alleles on the redundant chromosomes to produce something with an effect similar to "hybrid vigor" that breeds true. On the other hand, if you had a new or rare allele for a given gene that wasn't already on one of the redundant pairs of chromosomes, it would be hard to get it there without moving back down to diploidy and then back up to tetraploidy. This is why polyploid plants evolve slowly: a new favorable mutation is hard to duplicate on the redundant chromosomes, and therefor its effect gets watered down. I would guess that there is some "overhead" for total amount of genome. I recall reading that someone decided that octaploid was as high as practical for wheat and its amphiploid relations. Wheat already has a gigantic genome--longer than a human's. But the record so far that I am aware of is that of Paris japonica. Generally speaking, tetraploids are often physically bigger and more vigorous than their diploid counterparts. The effect seems to diminish at higher ploidy levels. Spacecase, not surprisingly, Tom Wagner's diploid potatoes tend to be small--roughly golf-ball sized. That is almost certainly due to being diploid. OTOH they are quite vigorous. Usually more so than the tetraploids. Probably because they consistently outcross, and therefor often show some hybrid vigor, and also because they are faster to breed. The plants themselves are typically finer-leaved, but not particularly small in total size of the plant. You get more but smaller shoots, leaves, and potatoes. One problem with polyploids is that if they interbreed you often get plants with odd-numbered levels of ploidy, for example diploid x tetraploid results in triploids. Commercial breeders often do that on purpose to intentionally create sterile crops. I have had some unpleasant experiences with that in some commercial crops that were not advertised as being triploid or sterile. Could not save the seeds, as none were produced. Plants with odd numbers of ploidy levels are not always sterile. On rare occasions something will happen during chromosome splitting that resolves the unmatched chromosome. Someone I know waits patiently for the occasional seed on Knifophia thompsonii var snowdenii, which is triploid. Some types of plants for some reason often resolve their odd chromosomes; Fuchsias, for example, or wheat. I don't know why; I'm not a biologist. Thanks Atash! Very helpful! And interesting. I've mentioned it in another thread, but i think diploids are smaller both because tetraploids are bigger, but also because diploid potatoes haven't had the same amount of breeding effort as tetraploids have. If efforts were spent with diploid potatoes surly size could improve. So, there are ways to double the ploidy number. i wouldn't think it would be possible, but are there ways to change tetraploids back into diploids?
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Post by darrellg on May 15, 2016 1:32:53 GMT -5
I feel disgusted blending potato berries to extract the seeds. The smell is quite offensive to me. This year I did the operation outdoors so that I could breathe. Most of the potato berries that I harvest and blend are still green fruits. However, if I get a really nice vine ripened potato berry that has turned yellow... Mmmm. Mmmm. Mmmm. No one breeding for low toxic, large, seedless, great tasting edible berries?
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Post by nathanp on May 15, 2016 11:25:52 GMT -5
This is not always true. Within S. tuberosum (including multiple subgroups), often a male diploid crossed to a female tetraploid results in tetraploid offspring. And a male tetraploid crossed to a female diploid results in diploid offspring. Crosses to wild species are more likely to result in polyploids or odd ploidys.
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Post by jondear on Jun 1, 2016 20:23:59 GMT -5
My first year tubers from last year's tps plants are growing like gangbusters. I'll be hilling this weekend for sure, and just in time, because the friggin' weeds are growing fast too.
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Post by nathanp on Nov 25, 2016 9:45:07 GMT -5
Here is a link to photos of my TPS tuber yields from 2016. It was a very dry year, with 4" rain between May 23 and September 30, so most plants harvested before September have marble sized tuber (or smaller). The best yielding ones were the ones that lasted well into October and survived a light frost. The pictures are in reverse alphabetical order. 2016 TPS
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Post by jocelyn on Nov 25, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5
Well, that's fun. I especially liked the pictures. I am new at this, and it gives me an idea of what size to expect in TPS first year tubers. I have been taking a thumbnail 'bite' out of the new tubers here, to see what they taste like and what colour the flesh turned out. I ate one that didn't taste good enough to keep, and kept two white fleshed russets that taste really nice. There is a round red too, nice red flesh, tastes good. Does it appear that round is dominant over long and skinny?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Nov 25, 2016 12:30:39 GMT -5
These potatoes were all grown from first year seedlings. Each basket represents the harvest from one seed. The baskets are standard one pint berry baskets.
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Post by jocelyn on Nov 25, 2016 13:07:36 GMT -5
OOOO, more pictures, even more fun. Who says you can't play wth your food? You've got a lot of round ones too, and lots of colours. I didn't know it was possible to have dark blue flesh with no purple tint to it...nice. Those bright yellow ones are nice too. How about russet skin, is that dominant too, anybody know...I had pooled seed this year, open pollinated, ans some russetted blue with white flesh showed up, also some russetted blue with purple flesh.....only russets were a big commercial white.....
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Post by billw on Nov 25, 2016 13:22:09 GMT -5
Some seedling potatoes this year. These are just some that I thought interesting enough to take picture of, so it doesn't represent the hundreds with boring appearance or puny yields.
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Post by jocelyn on Nov 25, 2016 13:43:11 GMT -5
Oh, oh, more pictures, huge grin. Kid in a candy store grin I've got some seed started again, in the house for the spring. Germination is a bit enthusiastic this year. When they go down in Feb, I'll put the tiny tubers in the fridge till the snow goes and plant them out in the spring. They get a decent size on them if you plant the pea sized tubers and they outgrow my chickens. Chickens sometimes get in the garden. Those bright yellow ones are very pretty.
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Post by jocelyn on Nov 25, 2016 13:52:32 GMT -5
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Post by nathanp on Nov 25, 2016 16:02:23 GMT -5
Jocelyn - yes round is dominant over fingerling. I am not sure about the Russet trait.
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Post by jocelyn on Nov 25, 2016 18:32:46 GMT -5
Oh, Ok, thanks
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