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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 5, 2011 21:47:32 GMT -5
I read on another thread that while the anthocyanin pigments in corn provide antioxidant support for humans, they tend to make the plant less vigorous and lower yielding. Blue Hopi and Pink Hopi flour corns are highly colored when dry. They do not in any way suffer from lack of vigor, being the highest yielding corns that I have grown. In sweet corns, I have grown purple seeded corns that are vigorous, and purple seeded corns that barely survive. Sometimes I see a plant with deep purple leaves and deep purple stalks and deep purple seeds, and they tend to be small plants, but it's easy enough to select for purple seeds without selecting for intense purple in every other part of the plant. When I am growing sweet corn, I don't necessarily care about high yield in the same way that I would care about it if I were growing a dent corn.
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Post by DarJones on Sept 5, 2011 22:22:41 GMT -5
I have not seen any correlation between plant vigor and anthocyanin accumulation. That does not mean there is none.
You might look up Seneca Red Stalker and cross it with Maize Morado. That should be one unusual corn.
DarJones
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 5, 2011 23:21:23 GMT -5
I read on another thread that while the anthocyanin pigments in corn provide antioxidant support for humans, they tend to make the plant less vigorous and lower yielding. I'm curious, because I want to breed high producing and vigorous varieties like Hickory King and Virginia gourdseed with antioxidant-rich cultivars like Maiz Morado and Double Red Sweet for a new variety with both size and anti-cancer properties. However, if the colored genes will weaken the final product, then I'd rather not make the cross. Anyone? I have seen this effect on many of my own corn. often it seems that the deep purple corn plants (i assume homozygous purple foliage) often are paired with a super tight husk gene (often have trouble getting pollinated) and perhaps do no not grow as vigorously. But, it is not entirely universal. I think perhaps there is just tight linkage with a few bad genes. I'm actively working on the problem in my own line. But, there is also the possibility that by having the purple trait for some sort of survival might be a sort of a compromise. Perhaps they are indeed less vigorous directly because of the purple color, and had to disable one set of genes to activate the purple set. Who knows. Still, i'm hoping it's just bad linkage with other genes. I'm hoping that by eventually crossing my deep purples (purple foliage, but not necessarily purple kernels) with one that otherwise thrives in my environment and produces large plants and stalks that i may be able to get something worthwhile at the end. I have noticed in years when we plant lettuce that the red lettuce plants often do better than the green ones. In the case of lettuce there does not seem to be a loss in vigor. If you want my advice.. i say chose a variety like Double Red and breed it with another type, and only select types that have green foliage and green husks, but with purple seeds. You said this was for human health, so i really doubt many people would be eating the husks anyway... --- P.s. I just thought i'd let everyone know that the Zea Mexicana is suddenly growing much taller, and in some ways is becoming more similar to corn than it was in it's younger growth cycle. It is the only teosinte to have a fair amount of anthocyanin colors, and in fact it has red roots sticking a little above the ground. Perhaps the origin of corn could have been because of a hybrid cross between Zea Mexicana and Zea Parviglumis after all. How interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 7:50:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 14:45:19 GMT -5
(Hristo. I just now saw your response.) Could you tell me about how Maiz Morado grew for you? I've heard information about the strain all over the place (some people say 90 days to maturity and some say 150+ ). How long did it take to flower in your climate? How heat-fussy was it? How was stalk strength? And about how many days for grain and dry down? Does it take high moisture well? Sorry to be so inquisitive, but I really like this variety, and I want to know more about it before I commit to growing it in my limited space.
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Post by Hristo on Sept 6, 2011 17:35:30 GMT -5
I grew it 2 years - the first one was relatively hot and it did not flower - actually in august I could see young ears and tassels, so I thought they will flower till 1-2 weeks, but then the temps "jumped" well above 30C and the plants stopped any development for about 3-4 weeks, then there were no time to mature. The second year was not so hot, so they flowered in august and I was able to use some pollen to pollinate another variety. The morado itself never matured. It's flour type, so it does not take well high moisture. Stalk strength was fine. Also not all the plants produce ears in our climate, but this is normal for a tropical variety.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Sept 7, 2011 2:36:45 GMT -5
As far as the anthocyanin issue is concerned, has anyone else see the photo of Dave Christiansen with three ears of painted mountain with purple husks and black/purple seed? Looks like he's got some lines that have the anthocyanin reduced vigor issue licked. Is anyone in contact with him? Be interesting to hear his thoughts on it. seedweneed.com/index-1.html
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 7, 2011 12:19:02 GMT -5
Hey Dar, Any idea what this is? This is my Italian Corn. Only the ones that were bitten by the wild pigs look like this. Thanks Holly Attachments:
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 7, 2011 12:21:11 GMT -5
I love the look of this sinuous corn! See the streaking is not on any corn that wasn't grazed. Attachments:
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Post by steev on Sept 7, 2011 18:14:32 GMT -5
Swine flu?
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Post by Hristo on Sept 7, 2011 19:12:01 GMT -5
Ha ha, I had restrained myself to say the same, didn't knew how will be accepted such joke.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 7, 2011 22:58:47 GMT -5
Could you tell me about how Maiz Morado grew for you? I've heard information about the strain all over the place (some people say 90 days to maturity and some say 150+ ). How long did it take to flower in your climate? How heat-fussy was it? How was stalk strength? And about how many days for grain and dry down? Does it take high moisture well? Sorry to be so inquisitive, but I really like this variety, and I want to know more about it before I commit to growing it in my limited space. I grew a variety labeled "Peruvian Morado". I'd place it at about 95 days based on how long it took compared to the 85 day corn that I planted on the same day. (That translates to 140 calendar days to dough stage for me due to my cold climate.) It may have been the tallest corn I grew that year at around 9 feet. Taller than any of my sweet corns, taller than Hopi blue, as tall or taller than my Indian corn landrace. It grew fine for me with no noticeable difference from other corns except for the longer days-to-maturity. It stood until I tilled it under. My garden is very arid, so I am not a useful source regarding water sensitivity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 16:35:06 GMT -5
Joseph, did you happen to get any grain from it? If so, how much?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 17:09:36 GMT -5
To anybody who wishes to comment and, perhaps, give a little advice, I'm wanting to include the Morado corn in a pedigree for a new strain adapted to the Appalachians. It will be 25% tropical (2 USDA composites + M. Morado and a Mexican strain, perhaps Aztec Red); 25% Northern / Plains flint + Painted Mt (PM, Longfellow, Gigi Hill / South Dakota Rainbow, and Osage Red); and 50% cornbelt & Southern dent (Hickory King, gourdseed, Warner's, Bloody Butcher, and Double Red Sweet). It'll be bred for: tall (12 ft), very thick stalks for pole bean support; early spring vigor & N efficiency; 2-3 long, thin ears for quick dry down; and hard flint kernels for pest / rot / fall rains resistance and long-term storage. It will also have deep purple stalks, husks, and ears from the Morado and Double Red Sweet. I'm currently debating whether or not to select for tillers too, as I've heard PM and some flints make small tiller ears in addition to those on the main stalk. I'm only a 19 year-old novice, so any advice would be much appreciated. (Sorry for the diatribe.)
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Post by johno on Sept 8, 2011 17:14:55 GMT -5
bjargakarlinn, I would not have guessed you were 19. It sounds to me like you know what you are doing. I never considered breeding in thinner cobs for quick dry-down. That's a helpful tip.
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