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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 22, 2013 18:35:24 GMT -5
I acknowledge that the blue colors of glass gem are rare in food crops, but I think that as a food, it's just corn. As someone who has developed a certain amount of blase-ness about the stuff (Glass gem, or at least a corn that looks exactly like glass gem, has been a standard sight at the autum farmers markets up here in New York for at least 4-5 years, so by now I am sort of used to it and it no longer wows me as much. I will note that what really impressed me when I first saw it wasn't the blues, it was the oranges. There aren't all that many orange kerneled corns out there (well not that many that are not either universally orange or orange via the pericarp so that everything is limited to shades of reds browns and the other colors you get when orange is lain over other colors.) Nor is blue food all that uncommon (despite what George Carlin said) There's that wierd little melon relative from China (Decasina farnesii) for example. Besides picking for poppability, what I think most of the samples REALLY need to be selected for is cob color balance. While I have by now seed literally hundreds of Glass gem ears in person. I think I have seen one with a color balance approaching that of the "archetype" picture exactly ONCE. A lot of it (too much of it) is really one color (usually white, blue, yellow or magenta) with a smattering of other colored kernels. With the vagaries of genetics keeping cobs colored balanced may be impossible. but I really think some extra effort would do wonders.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 22, 2013 19:08:28 GMT -5
I guess I missed out on a big opportunity to participate in a genuine agricultural bubble. Darn. Gray GAVE me some Glass Gem in 2011. I should have planted it all, gotten a big pile of seed and cashed in on ebay. Even NativeSeeds/SEARCH has gotten in on the ridiculous hype. There's this Mother Earth News article that came out last month, just in case somebody missed that picture on facebook. Glass Gem is pretty corn. If you sort through the ears and have a good camera I'm sure you can find something similar to that picture , but other pictures of multiple ears show that not every ear is that exciting . What bugs me is all the hype. Glass Gem isn't an heirloom corn, its a very recently created semi-popping flint that is still segregating for a lot of traits. I think Joseph's popcorn selection idea is the best idea for where it should go, because right now the corn is basically only good for looking pretty and scamming suckers on facebook and ebay. From reading the Mother Earth News article it sounds like Carl Barnes was a hell of a corn breeder and plant explorer. I'd love to see some of the other corns he found and worked with. I bet a lot of them were a lot more functional as corn varieties than Glass Gem. There are lots of old Native American corn varieties languishing in GRIN. NativeSeeds/SEARCH maintains a lot of such varieties. What does everybody want? "Ooh! All the pretty colors!" When I first saw the prices Glass Gem was going for on ebay for a tiny amount of seed I was a little upset. "Those people are getting ripped off!" But now that I've thought about it some more, I've realized that it doesn't really matter, and may be a good thing overall. A lot of those people will never grow that corn out anyway. They just bought it so they can say "I just got some Glass Gem seed! I'm so excited!" on facebook and link to that picture. Possibly a few of them will grow it , love the process and join the rest of us as gardeners and seed savers. So what the hell
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Post by 12540dumont on Jan 22, 2013 20:40:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I love the pink! And I'm not even a girly girl.
However, my family feels that eating really grainy corn is like chewing glass. Sometimes I forget Carol Deppe's advice, Flour corn for baking, Flint corn for boiling and Dent corn for Turkeys!
So I can't wait for Joseph to make it into popcorn.
What ever you do DO NOT succumb to writing to Carl Barnes and sending money. As I have said before, you will see no corn and your money will be gone.
So look for it somewhere else. Yeah, been there, been ripped off.
I surely hope that those folks selling it on EBAY make a mint! (You know who you are!) It helps remind people that if you want to grow corn, don't just fall for a pretty face. (Gee I hope my son is reading this). You gotta grow what you like to eat and that you are able to process.
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Post by atash on Jan 23, 2013 14:00:12 GMT -5
That works for you, but for us northerners, and especially northerners in damp climates, it's not working. Flour corn does not dry down or store well for us.
There's something else too that I'm not clear myself on, because I don't come from a "corn culture" (city boy from wrong part of the country): cultures that do eat a lot of corn as a staple seem to strongly prefer flinty corn, not floury or dent.
That said, it is possible to use dent corn to make masa harina de maiz, and that's apparently what is used here in the USA where dent corn is common and flint corn is rare. But in South America, it's the other way around, or at least was until maybe recently.
In any case, you've probably noticed that masa harina de maiz is finely-ground. It's not nubbly. That's because the flint has all broken down in the processing.
I read a long thread on the creation of various types of pancake-like corn-cakes, and several people recommended using fine polenta. They make the batter, then let it sit for an hour or so to soften the flint.
I think one way or another, flinty corn is usable for making batters, it's a matter of knowing how to do it to soften the flint. I think another key is to have some process, either chemical through nixtamalization, or through natural fermentation, to break down the phytic acid which would otherwise bind up needed nutrients, causing pellagra among Africans who eat too much mealie meal (corn meal) but not among Amerindians who are just as poor and also eat a corn-based diet, but know to chemically treat their corn before eating it.
The nixtamalization also binds the proteins and polysaccharides so that they can form a dough. Without that, tortillas and other corn-dough products would not hold together.
My instinct is to have a shot at some sort of fermentation process to break it down. I like fermentation...and I don't live in a part of the world where lime is exactly plentiful on land.
Corn represents some interesting culinary challenges to people who are not used to working with it. But it also has some interesting benefits: some modern corns are about as high in protein as hard wheat (14%!!), and unlike any other cereal I can think of, they come in high-lysine versions that are 90% "complete".
I think that all that is needed is some experimentation on my part. I'd like to buy some fine-grind polenta and also some masa harina de maiz, and see what I can make out of them.
I have made chocolate-chip cookies out of corn meal. It worked OK, but would probably work better if I made the cookie dough, stored it in the refrigerator overnight, and baked them the next day. One of these days, I'll try that.
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Post by Walk on Jan 23, 2013 14:14:31 GMT -5
We use flint corn meal in lots of baked goods. We usually soak all our grains for several hours before baking as that's supposed to make them more digestible. All of our "flours" are home-ground and are rather coarse in texture as we like them that way. Coarse meal has a lower glycemic index than a fine flour ground from the same grain. Whole is even better in that regard.
For nixtamal, we use the pickling lime from the local grocery store. It's a food-grade version of quick lime, otherwise known as slaked or hydrated lime. We have used oak wood ash, but we don't usually burn oak. I've wondered if the ash from the corn cobs, which the plains Indians used as a seasoning, would work for nixtamal? TBW, we've made nixtamal from dent, flour, pop, sweet, and flint as well as sorghum. They all have their pros and cons. The flint does best for us as a grain crop in Minnesota.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 23, 2013 15:23:49 GMT -5
I strongly prefer flint corns here in my climate. They dry down the best if they are an early type, and the animals bother them less. I do not like the dent corns, but some of them may have stronger stalk genes, so i am exploring that. Some of the flour corns like Painted Mountain have excellent colors, but they are all flour corns, so it is annoying to be trying to breed them with flints.
I agree that Glass Gem isn't all that remarkable. Since i pretty much only grow indian corn i have grown similar flints with similar colors and glassy appearances fairly often. I will admit that i did a little too much selection with my original seed, so i am having to source some new seed and get some good flint diversity back, but i'm not worried about it. I will mention that one of my lines of my selections dealing with my purple stalked corn had some extreme selections toward pink kernels and chin-marked (striped) kernels. One of the nicest cobs i got two seasons ago from that selection had most of the kernels with a nice pinkish hue, but not a nice solid pink, and the flint structure in them could be improved. I wonder if you saw any of those this year Joseph when you grew out my big corn mix.
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Post by catherinenm on Jan 24, 2013 23:36:28 GMT -5
The nixtamalization also binds the proteins and polysaccharides so that they can form a dough. Without that, tortillas and other corn-dough products would not hold together.
My instinct is to have a shot at some sort of fermentation process to break it down. I like fermentation...and I don't live in a part of the world where lime is exactly plentiful on land.
Read more: alanbishop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=corn&action=display&thread=5808&page=6#ixzz2IxGhpCat You don't need lime, Atash, you just need cooking ashes. I have one book on Hopi Cookery, by Juanita Tiger Kavena, and it seems the Hopi prefer to use Four Wing Saltbrush ashes for cooking. I grew up practically in a museum of the plains Indians (it was across the street from our house, and a great place to spend time!), and my vague memory is that they used corn cob ashes for their cooking ashes, at least some of the time. Here's an example of a Hopi recipe: Blue Marbles (no, no native name given) 2 tsp cooking ashes 2 tbsp boiling water 1/2 C finely ground blue cornmeal 1 tbsp sugar 5 tbsp boiling water Mix the ashes with 2 tbsp boiling water and set aside. Mix the cornmeal and sugar in a bowl and stir in 5 tbsp boiling water. Pour the ash water through a cloth (or paper towel) into the cornmeal until the dough is distinctly blue in color. Knead until smooth, then shape dough into balls the size of marbles. Drop balls into 2 cups boiling water and cook for 10 min. Serve in the bowl with their cooking water along with dried onions, fresh or dried chiles, fried salt pork (bacon), or strips of beef. This is usually a breakfast dish. I also have a recipe for posole (hominy) made with cooking ashes, if anyone is interested. I always like to know how the crop was cooked when I grow it. Some would call it obsessive, I call it curiosity. I was growing Taos blue corn when I developed this curiosity, and Taos is NOT a Hopi tribe. However, Taos is about the same altitude as my garden, so it was the right cultivar for me, even if I couldn't find any Taos cookbooks at that time. Anyway, the cooking technology should have been similar. Catherine
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Post by cortona on Jan 25, 2013 15:33:15 GMT -5
thanks Catherine, that is a greath shot of knowedlege!
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Post by 12540dumont on Jan 25, 2013 18:28:27 GMT -5
I can't believe this topic has been read 10,000 times. Joseph, I guess you should have sent me Glass Gem instead of Frosty!
Just kidding. I'll keep my Frosty and my Ashworth.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 25, 2013 20:40:14 GMT -5
For a while last year this thread was one of the first search results when you Googled "Glass Gem". No longer the case. #1 appears to be some kind of Glass Gem vanity blog associated with NS/S. We must squeeze ever last dollar out of this viral craze before folks start saving their own Glass Gem!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 25, 2013 23:19:49 GMT -5
I've been sending large amounts of Glass Gem Corn to farmers: Gratis. Hoping that it will create a glut of seed next fall.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 25, 2013 23:45:49 GMT -5
Good. I can't wait till this Glass Gem craze is over. Once the seed is ubiquitous we can just use it in breeding projects or whatever and I don't have to see that picture ever again. I'd also like to say that selling Glass Gem seed one did not grow for 100 seeds/$50 is a blatant ripoff (50 cents/seed for a junky popcorn?!!!). It's disgusting. I'm sick of all the stupidity surrounding this corn.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 26, 2013 1:17:36 GMT -5
The mania phase started after a TV show: Doomsday Preppers - National Geographic Channel. I don't know the date it aired, but approximately the last few days of December.
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Post by gray on Jan 26, 2013 9:51:57 GMT -5
Joesph I got the seed from the folks that posted "that picture" as Tim calls it.
I do have lots of pictures of my grow out this year and cobs. It is the heaviest tiller I have ever seen. I will try to get my IT man (Son) to help me post all my garden pictures soon.
I still say it makes a great flour. I dont have much experience with corn grinding, but my wife uses her nutrimill and the flour is fine and light blue. We love the cornbread it makes and the old maids for cornnuts are a great accent on a salad.
I have done nothing but give the seed away till someone wanted a quantity. I sold a lb. for fifty bucks. If Blue Jade still sells for that surely glass gem is worth it. Given the craze. The free market however allows people the freedom to spend what they want on corn seed or other. Maybe some cool corns will be segregated out over time. Just wait for the next "son of glass gem "corn craze. It will probably happen.
I am going to try and segregate some colors this year as well as continue to grow the whole diverse conglomerate to maintain it in that stage.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 26, 2013 13:59:19 GMT -5
It is the heaviest tiller I have ever seen. I will try to get my IT man (Son) to help me post all my garden pictures soon. I think the only corn I have seen with more tillers was Hopi Blue. Glass gem produced more cobs per tiller. Especially with extra spacing!!! The plants on the end of the row were astoundingly productive. Cob height was likewise about 5 feet. Really nice for picking. I planted in rows 30" apart with seeds every 12". Next year I'm intending to plant at about 18" spacing in the rows.
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