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Post by littleminnie on Feb 24, 2012 14:11:01 GMT -5
I have been thinking about the idea of keeping squash small by planting them too closely. I think the tiny squash at the grocery store must be the result of close planting. Many of my squash do not sell because they are so big. I have cheated and sold them cut into wedges but wouldn't want to get caught doing that. Some of the Musques are about 30# and no one wants those. I end up processing them myself and again cheating and selling that when it is wrong. So what has anyone to say about planting too close? My usual method is one long row that gets manured well, drip line laid and then black plastic. So say 6 feet of black plastic on either side of the row. Then within this row I plant seedlings every 3 feet. Maybe I should try every 2 feet. Just brainstorming.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 24, 2012 14:33:46 GMT -5
I plant winter squash in a row: One seed every 6 inches the whole length of the row. When i do so, I get 2 pound squash, and I get 25 pound squash. Under my planting scheme I think that genetics plays a larger role in fruit size than crowding.
Two years ago when I saved moschata seed I separated them into small/medium, and large. This year I subdivided the small/medium into two groups small and medium. I intend to grow them in semi-isolation this summer. My long-term objective is to get a landrace of moschata (butternut or necked) squash with fruits about 2 pounds or less.
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Post by 12540dumont on Feb 24, 2012 15:12:36 GMT -5
Minnie, I've been continuously saving the seed of the smallest squash for those Musques. I give the biggest ones to big families, or cut them in half for shares. I know at the farmer's market they hate that sort of thing. But the grocery store here sells cut squash. At the market, I would cut them before I got there. I know, families are getting smaller and they want smaller squash.
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Post by cortona on Feb 24, 2012 17:46:52 GMT -5
in my experience growing winter squash distance is not a key to reduce the size, probably less manurue and less water can helpa bit but is better to choice a different variety (it exist several different muscatha variety and hibrid that are smaller size tomorrow i wil post some link!
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Post by littleminnie on Feb 24, 2012 21:24:42 GMT -5
Hmm have you seen the mini butternut squash at the store now? Are they a new teeny variety?
Wow Joseph- that is close.
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Post by flowerpower on Feb 25, 2012 12:43:54 GMT -5
The mini butternut might be Honey Nut. I bought one at the farmers market. It looked interesting. There were more seeds than flesh. It was so small, I fed it to the chickens.
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Post by Hristo on Feb 25, 2012 13:10:44 GMT -5
Close planting definitely will reduce the average size/weight, but not as much as you obviously want. For Musque de Provence something like 4x1 ft. could work well, but still I do not expect under 10 lb. average weight.
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Post by jonnyyuma on Feb 25, 2012 21:51:13 GMT -5
Hello There is only so much you can do with spacing. In most cucurbits, but I am not so familiar with squash, size is a stron genetic by environment interaction. In general size is genetic and day length sensitive. Not to say that narrow spacing won't make things smaller, but you would be better served to find a variety that is genetically small and not try to make something that is genetically big into something that is small. I don't know if I made any sense? Thanks Jonny
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Post by Hristo on Feb 29, 2012 9:16:08 GMT -5
This is true, but squash could be an exception, particularly in one specific case - the large fruited varieties. The best example is the Atlantic Giant, where space bellow 400-500 sq. ft. progressively influences the fruit size. I have grown AGs on very limited space 4 in. between plants by 10 ft. between rows. At such spacing many of the plants get suppressed by the more vigorous ones and did not set fruit at all. The ones that set reach no more than 50 lb. Musque de Provence is much smaller than AG, but still big compared to most other varieties, so I suppose some weight reduction is possible, lets say up to 25%. The problem is to find the appropriate spacing. Close spacing has one big drawback - more diseases, especially powdery mildew.
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Post by traab on Feb 29, 2012 13:13:32 GMT -5
My understanding about the opposite-growing large squash is to leave one fruit per vine. Would increasing fruit set per vine help you have more fruits of smaller size? I was interested in some smaller fruited bush types because of the advertised flavor but I want to shape my butternut popullation for small seed cavity and large size for serving the family.
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Post by Hristo on Mar 2, 2012 15:16:02 GMT -5
Yes, but it's kind of harder to do. One of the bigger problems is that the growing conditions need to be stable and favourable for fruit set, especially after the first fruit sets. If during that period happens drought or too high temps even if the space is more than enough most often the plants abort all but one fruit.
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Post by Walk on Mar 2, 2012 15:52:25 GMT -5
My observations on planting rampant squashes too closely (due to desire for more plants in a limited space rather than decreased fruit size) has been that the plants are more prone to disease and insect problems. The vines go up and over everything trying to find the space they need. The over-grown, jungle conditions are a great habitat for rodents and the fruits had more damage than usual. The fruits seemed to be their normal size despite all the other problems.
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floricole
gardener
39 acres, half wooded half arable, land of alluvial
Posts: 108
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Post by floricole on Aug 21, 2012 19:19:05 GMT -5
I did grow miniature maxima squash this year. they have reach 4'' diam. Muscade de provence, Queensland blue, Australian butter and many other.
I have been force to grow them in 2 gal. container, you should try in a 5 gal to see what it can do
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Post by oxbowfarm on Aug 21, 2012 19:37:10 GMT -5
It might be interesting to cross Musque with one of those Japanese/Asian pumpkin moschatas like Yokohama or Futsu. They have a similar fruit shape, it might bring down the size of your Musque and still make a pretty squash. I know Baker Creek has several of the little asian moschata pumpkins. It might even make a nice F1 hybrid you could keep reproducing.
I planted a 50 foot row of Josephs' Medium Landrace Butternut this year. They either are responding differently to my climate or Joseph and I have a different idea of what "medium" is. They are massive monster neck pumpkin butternuts as big as my leg for the most part. I cringe to think what Joseph's LARGE butternuts must be like. They were also by many days the earliest moschatas to flower this year. Definitely showing a lot of powdery mildew now, more than my other moschatas, but most of them are already tanning up.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 21, 2012 20:05:12 GMT -5
I planted a 50 foot row of Josephs' Medium Landrace Butternut this year. They either are responding differently to my climate or Joseph and I have a different idea of what "medium" is. They are massive monster neck pumpkin butternuts as big as my leg for the most part. I cringe to think what Joseph's LARGE butternuts must be like. They were also by many days the earliest moschatas to flower this year. Definitely showing a lot of powdery mildew now, more than my other moschatas, but most of them are already tanning up. To me, these are small and medium. Notice the foot in there... And I think I moved that biggest round squash into the large landrace. And these are large. Sorry about the grimace. It's hard to smile while holding that much squash.
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