Cold tolerant tomatoes, right down Joseph's alley.

[steev]

Might be kind to put it out of your misery and encourage something more to your taste and circumstances.

[davida]

Jul 18, 2013 21:20:56 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

I apologize for speaking poorly of the Alder. The thing about permaculture gardening is that I don't always get to choose what grows in a space like I can in my fields. I grumble too much about the choices of the previous inhabitants.

The previous video was of my middle sized field. Here's a video of the larger (South) field a few minutes later. It was too windy for good sound, so I wasn't going to post it. I sure love the sound of Rainbirds. tck tck tck tck tck. Sometimes after dark, when there is no moonlight, I'll stand in the field and listen for the sound of each nozzle in the line to make sure they are working properly before I go to bed. Such a soothing sound to me.

I only know of this one alder tree in the vicinity. Never tried smoking with it. There is an abundance of apple, cherry, peach, and apricot wood around here. My brother smokes lots of fish.

edit: I went and sat under the alder for a few minutes, studying the surroundings. I think that I dislike it because it is out of it's element. About 1/4 of the leaves on it are dead. It doesn't get enough water where it grows, and it is super arid around here, and the alder is located on a hill so the soil drains super quickly even if it does get rain or irrigation. The falling leaves collect down-slope in an area where their nitrogen is less useful than it could be. I think a water harvesting swale on contour would help the tree.

Enjoyed seeing the south field. Wow, you have your work cut out for you but you have beautiful scenery to work. The fields look great. Noticed several plantings of Ashworth corn. Is it your best selling fresh sweet corn at market?

Again, really enjoyed your permaculture video. It is motivating to see what you have done in the small space when you also have the massive gardens. Hope you have a very productive year and the seed business keeps growing.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Any corn I take to market is my best selling corn, because sweet corn is highly sought after around here. I planted my first crop of LISP Ashworth because it is the earliest maturity of any sweet corn I can grow reliably in early spring. And then I stuck with it because then I could time plantings every 10 days all summer long. Half of one planting failed (Perhaps due to an irrigation/rain timing problem), and one planting germinated poorly so I tilled it under, but I should have a well spread out harvest. Sugary enhanced corn would sell better, but untreated se+ seed germinates unreliably in cool weather in my clay soil. Perhaps next summer will be the year that I start taking Paradise to the farmer's market.

I would have planted a few more crops of Astronomy Domine for the later plantings but seed was scarce this spring due to a horrid weed disaster last year and sharing more than usual.

I really like the permaculture garden, because it is so little work. Pruning the grapes and fruit trees and harvesting is about the extent of the work. And there is plenty of shade for those hot days.

[DarJones]

Nice progress with the tomatoes Joseph. From the looks of the fruit set and performance, it looks like you will have 6 varieties that are worth carrying forward. Bellstar is worth keeping an eye on. It was developed a climate similar to yours. Fruit size is medium large and production is high.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

DarJones: Thanks for inviting me to do this trial. It has been very useful to me, and an enjoyable project. I ran out of daylight before I could rank the tomatoes: Pick-for-market day.

I suppose that next week I'll attempt some manual cross pollinations. Anyone have tips to share about manually pollinating tomatoes? I'm toying with the idea of collecting pollen from the six or so most suitable candidates into a common lot, and using the pooled pollen to pollinate all the mothers. That would tend to fit best with my normal pattern of doing things. I think that I want to get serious about choosing parents with extended stigmas and open flowers, and that are very attractive to bumblebees. I really want to move towards a promiscuously pollinating tomato patch. I certainly have the pollinators for it. Today a bumblebee spent more than 2 minutes on B4, and before it left another bumblebee of a different species arrived to take it's place. It was the most popular plant in the patch today, and on Wednesday. A natural hybrid showed up in my tomatoes this year: It has an extended stigma, and is very precocious. Its mother was "Joseph's Earliest", father unknown, but the preliminary look is that it was a cherry tomato, so perhaps Sungold, or Sweet Million, or Matt's Wild Cherry, or possibly Joseph's Earliest Slicer. I think that plant would make a glorious mother...

Jul 18, 2013 17:37:04 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

I'll check.

What I meant to say, was that I do not tolerate Blossom End Rot among my tomatoes. Not the first fruit, and not a fruit from mid-season, and not a fruit after a dry spell. It's never tolerated. I chop the whole plant out immediately. That way there is no mistaking which plants are safe to save seeds from. One of the tomatoes in the trial has BER. I am tolerating it for the sake of the trial for this growing season, but it is a genetic dead end in my garden. It's on one of the dwarf plants that wouldn't compete well with weeds, so that's a double strike against it.

Wouldn't you know??? I broke the tomato off while checking for BER or a worm. It has neither. Oh well. It will ripen on the shelf in a few days.

Joseph's Earliest Slicer (D6):


It's about 7 to 9 weeks before frost is expected, so Bellstar might be in the running still. I need an early tomato, and a highly productive canning tomato. They do not need to be in the same plant.

At least two species of bumblebee were working the tomato patch today. Aughta take a better camera with me. Might help in trying to ID which species are visiting. The larger species has a yellow abdomen. The smaller species has a striped abdomen, black/orange. But there might be two smaller species. It's so hard for me to remember color patterns. The same few plants were highly favored.

This is what Jagodka looked like this evening. It'll be the second plant to ripen tomatoes this year. It's looking like it has a determinate growth pattern, and it has about maxed out it's potential. I hope that I haven't missed it's pollen production window.

Jagodka (C4):

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Here is the July 20th summary of the tomato trial. The flowering data is for the last 7 weeks. * indicates flowers present. All plants are currently flowering. In the fruit column there is a * for 1-9 fruits, ** for 10-19 fruits, etc.

Regarding flowers: flowers were open today at about 3 PM. This flower data should be considered tentative. I need to come up with a ranking SOP for flowers. So much to learn about flowers and what might make them good for cross pollination. I suppose I could rank:

Overall size of flower? (Some flowers seem too tiny for such large bees.)
Robustness of pedicel, truss, and flower stalks.
Length of anther cone?
Diameter of anther cone?
Diameter of Petals?
Anthers fused at base?
Anthers fused at tip?
Anthers fused in middle?
Accessible Nectary?
Pollen present?
Number of petals? This ranged from 5 to 11. Does that have significance?
Location of stigma in relation to tip of anther cone?
Stigma exposed?
How tight is the tip of the anther cone?
Presence of pollinators?
Bite marks?
Anything I aught to add to this list?

I noticed some anther cones were tightly fused at the tip. I wonder if pollen could even be extracted from them without busting the anther cone?

Tag	Name	Flowering	Number of Fruits	Notes About Flowers
A1	Wheatley's Frost Resistant	__*****	**	Stigma exposed on older flowers.
A2	Tastiheart	___****	*	Flower petals partially enclose anther cone. Short non-fused anther cone.
A3	Superbec	____***	*
A4	Spiridonovskie Red	__*****	***	Small flowers.
A5	Siberia	___****	*	Small flowers.
A6	Sasha's Altai	____***	*
B1	Purple Russian, RT	______*
B2	PI 120256	______*		Exposed Stigma.
B3	Peron Sprayless	____***	*
B4	Nevskiy Red	__*****	******	Highly favored by bumble bees.
B5	Moskovich	___***		Exposed Stigma. Open anther cone.
B6	Matina	_******	**	Exposed Stigma. Anther cone split.
C1	LA 3969	____***	*	Base of anther cone very open as if to expose nectary.
X2	Sungold	_******	***	Small flowers.
C4	Jagodka	_******	********	Highly favored by bumble bees.
C5	I-3 Red	_____**	*
C6	Earlinorth	*******	***	Base of anther cone open as if to expose nectary.
D1	Boney-M Red	__*****	***
D2	Hybrid Cross. (Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball) X (Disease Tolerant Red)	____***
D3	Bellstar	___****	**	Petals partially enclose anther cone.
D4	Barnaulskiy Konsermyi Red, RT	___****	*
D5	Joseph's Direct Seeded, RT	______*
D6	Joseph's Earliest	_******	**	Stigma even with tip of anther cone.
E1	Joseph's Earliest, RT	___****		Stigma slightly exposed.
E2	Joseph's Earliest, RT	__*****		Stigma slightly exposed.
E3	Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	___****
E4	Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	___****
E5	Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	__*****
E6	Hybrid -- Mother Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	__*****	**	Last time I looked at a flower on this plant it had the tip of the stigma exposed. Today it was hidden. What's up with that? Age of the flowers? Pollinators biting off the end of the anther cone?

[richardw]

Well i'm going to join in on this thread because ive been give a few seed from a tomato that has not only survived through winter so far but still has flowers,its withstood a -5Cdeg and many more lighter ones,the person who gave me this seed said - "This tomato has very good commercial attributes because the skins are very thick and the berries bigger compared to the original Matt's Wild Cherry, she believes it is a tetraploid mutation of Matt's Wild Cherry".

Ive sown the seed today and will keep ya's informed on not only if it handles the early spring frosts but of coarse the late frosts which are heavier here than where it came from.....so looking forward to growing this tomato.

[DarJones]

If it is a tetraploid, there will be serious problems with seed germination. If it is a bee made hybrid, then you will get nearly 100% germination. Count your seed and let us know how they turn out.

[richardw]

will do,its a very small seed

[12540dumont]

Dar, I'm posting this here, so you'll see it...besides Sungold, which had an unfair advantage, the earliest tomato in my garden was Picardy.


Captain Picard to the bridge please! Thank you oh most wonderful Dar, provider of great tomatoes.

And Lieven's Me Tarzan (Lieven's Teardrop)

and lo and behold

Piennolo de Vesuvio!

Our weather has contributed to odd tomato ripening. 90-105 in the daytime, 54-60 at night.

I have Corn Fusarium Wilt!

A couple of tomatoes look God awful and I'm going to have to pull them. Bernardini Paste....sigh..

[cortona]

in the same year here in italy,bernardini paste are doing greath!

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Lots of ripening fruit in the tomato patch today. Not my day to evaluate tomatoes, so I just walked past. I had to turn irrigation water off at 3:00 AM, and since I was there and the moonlight was so bright, I dug garlic until sunrise, then I picked green beans and summer squash and weeded until I couldn't stand any more UV. Too tired to evaluate tomatoes anyway.

We've eaten 4 ripe fruits so far: 3 from Joseph's Earliest slicer, and one Sungold.

[steev]

If you had a miner's lamp-helmet, you could work at night all through the hot season; then you could doze through the farmer's market (maybe in a coffin).

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Evaluation of the tomatoes for July 26th. I did not update flowering data. Adding a field for whether there was ripe fruit followed by "number/number" representing the fruit harvested this week and year-to-date fruit harvest. "_" = no fruit harvested this week. "*" = fruit harvested. I attempted a few cross pollinations. Nevsky Red (B4) released adequate pollen with a vibrator. (No wonder the bumblebees like it. Two species of pollinators on Nevsky Red this week: A huge bumblebee with yellow abdomen, and a tiny white bumblebee.) I vibrated about 8 other plants but only one released a slight amount of pollen. Wind was blowing fairly hard so I didn't fuss much with pollen. Jagodka seems about finished flowering.

To save you from doing the math, that was 12 ripe fruits this week. This is about the same time to two weeks earlier than I have traditionally started harvesting tomatoes. This year seems hotter than usual, so I'd expect this to be an earlier year. The only non-trialed tomato that has produced fruit so far is one Sungold, which was transplanted from a 5" pot (and a huge plant to fill the pot). For each variety that produced ripe fruit this week, it has been 7 weeks since flowers appeared. It has only been a week since some plants started flowering, and our fall frosts are expected in 6 to 7 weeks, so if the 7 week time-frame is more or less consistent across varieties, then they might be hard pressed to ripen much fruit in the available season.

Earlinorth was the first to flower, but it will be at least 9 weeks from first flower to ripe fruit.

Tag	Name	Flowering	Number of Fruits	Harvest, Fruit Size, and Notes
A1	Wheatley's Frost Resistant	__*****	****	_
A2	Tastiheart	___****	*	_
A3	Superbec	____***	**	_
A4	Spiridonovskie Red	__*****	****	_
A5	Siberia	___****	**	_
A6	Sasha's Altai	____***	*	_
B1	Purple Russian, RT	______*		_
B2	PI 120256	______*	*	_
B3	Peron Sprayless	____***	*	_
B4	Nevskiy Red	__*****	*********	_ Released lots of pollen. Used to pollinate B5.
B5	Moskovich	___***		_ Exposed stigma was easy to pollinate with pollen from B4.
B6	Matina	_******	**	* 3/3 Small. Meaty. Exposed stigma was easy to pollinate with pollen from E5.
C1	LA 3969	____***	**	_
X2	Sungold	_******	****	* 1/1 Tiny
C4	Jagodka	_******	************	* 3/3 Small. Juicy.
C5	I-3 Red	_____**	*	_
C6	Earlinorth	*******	*****	_
D1	Boney-M Red	__*****	****	_
D2	Hybrid Cross	____***	*	_
D3	Bellstar	___****	***	_
D4	Barnaulskiy Konsermyi Red, RT	___****	***	_
D5	Joseph's Direct Seeded, RT	______*	*	_
D6	Joseph's Earliest	_******	*	* 5/5 Small. Decimated by Flea Beetle attack.
E1	Joseph's Earliest, RT	___****	**	_
E2	Joseph's Earliest, RT	__*****	*	_
E3	Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	___****	*	_
E4	Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	___****	*	_
E5	Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	__*****	*	_ Released small amount of sticky pollen. Used to pollinate B6.
E6	Hybrid -- Mother Joseph's Earliest Slicer, RT	__*****	****	_

[richardw]

Jul 23, 2013 1:37:11 GMT -5 DarJones said:

If it is a tetraploid, there will be serious problems with seed germination. If it is a bee made hybrid, then you will get nearly 100% germination. Count your seed and let us know how they turn out.

I didn't count the seed because there were too many tiny small seeds in amongst what i was given,so unsure what the germination was going be like i sowed very thickly,6 days later and i'm seeing at least 10 seedlings coming though