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Post by hortusbrambonii on Jan 17, 2013 12:33:26 GMT -5
My experience with Cucurbita moschata is not that good here in Belgium. Seems like it is much less suited for our climate than pepo and maxima? Or am I just a bad gardener? Any recommendations? (seeds are alse welcome p)
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 17, 2013 12:41:31 GMT -5
In terms of suitability for cool climates, I'd rate the squash from best performing to worst as:
pepo maxima moschata mixta
I can grow everything on the list except for mixtas. About 75% of off-the-shelf moschata squash do not mature fruit in my garden.
hortusbrambonii: I'm intending to send you a package containing some short season moschata squash seeds. The seeds are still in the fruits so I better get busy eating. Some of you folks must already be getting close to squash planting season.
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Jan 17, 2013 13:05:30 GMT -5
Thanks Joseph;
That list might be accurate indeed... Except for that I never tried mixta (or ficifolia, which I suppose to be more warm-climate too)
I am surely interested in seed of short-season moschata-squashes. I'm beginning to think your landraces are might be one of the biggest hidden agricultural treasures on the planet... I only don't know if I as the amateur of amateurs am worthy enough to mess with them... Official last day of possible frost here in Belgium is around what we call the 'ice-saints' may 13-15. so there's still a lot of time...
I have another question: I do have 4 seeds from a seedswap of a 'baby blue hubbard squash' which according to some sources is moschata, according to some maxima, and somewhere else I read it was a hubbard squash crossed with a butternut. Anyone who knows more about the real species of that one? maxima? moschata? maxima X moschata?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 17, 2013 13:25:45 GMT -5
Bram: You are the expert here regarding your garden, and your seeds. Nobody else can select for the genetics that will survive or thrive in your garden. We can send you genetically diverse seeds that have a better chance of survival, but it's you that gets to do the hard work of growing them up and saving seeds from what grows best with your climate, soil, and unique growing practices.
I'll go out on a limb and claim that every squash called Hubbard is of the maxima species.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 17, 2013 15:20:01 GMT -5
I've mostly only grown Maxima's. But the list joseph has provided probably is true for here as well. I have grown some off the shelf butternut's (moschata) before and they grew well. But this year Hopi Black (moschata) barely made it, so many moschata's are too long season. The only thing i would add is maybe ficifolia before mixta. I have never grown mixta, but i did try ficifolia two seasons ago and i got one fruit (barely). What i find interesting is that Holly tried growing some ficifolia this year, but was unable to even though she is in a warmer climate.
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Post by canadamike on Jan 17, 2013 21:47:12 GMT -5
I second Joseph's list. Pepos are the ones I like the least ( forget growing mixta here) but they are the best producers. Thelma Sanders is by far the queen of production, and I can keep it untill the next harvest, a rare thing in pepos, it is also better tasting than most in my opinion.
I keep them for almost a year with only very minimal loss. And it is not only a one year thing, it's been like that for many years.
I have no problems with moschatas and maximas, both do very well, but I sure can eat the first moschata first and I am left with less immature ones.
Mixtas make it too, but lots of babies that are too young and a few that are ready...
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Post by mayz on Jan 18, 2013 6:57:15 GMT -5
I grow european cultivars such as Sucrine du Berry and Trompa d'Albenga with a certain success. But all my trials with japanese cv failed. Good luck for this new season.
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Post by cortona on Jan 19, 2013 6:39:09 GMT -5
japanese cv are notorius in italy too for not being so adapted, probably because of the different climate you can find in Japan(like italy you can find extreme hot and mountain's cold) and for the vulcanic(i think) soil.
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ed50
gopher
Posts: 2
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Post by ed50 on Jan 19, 2013 8:58:15 GMT -5
Bram, I had 'Pennsylvania Dutch Crookneck' in my garden last year and I had a lot of fruits from it. I don't know if I send seeds from it to you but otherwise you can get some of them. In earlier years I had also good results with 'Musquée de Provence' (only a few fruits but nice and big) and Futsu Black Early. This year I'm gonna try Shishigatani and Long Island Cheese from the moschata's. Eddy
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Jan 20, 2013 3:47:12 GMT -5
Hello Eddy. You sent me the 'early black futsu', which I din't realise was a moschata, so I have one to try next year... I thought those greenish Japanese pumpkins were all C. maxima...
Who can tell me the best ways to see which species a squash is?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 20, 2013 10:59:48 GMT -5
maxima = Corky round peduncle moschata = 5 sided (pentagon) hard peduncle, often bulbous at attachment point pepo = Star-like peduncle with 5 or 10 points.
Other species.... You are on your own.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 20, 2013 12:43:56 GMT -5
Some of the exceptions you just have to know, or get a secondary confirmation by looking at the seed. Delicata peduncles for example look very little like a standard pepo, almost no flare or ribbing, just a straight pentagonal sided dark green stem, but they are pepo. Pepo seed and moschata seed are easy to distinguish.
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Jan 20, 2013 12:59:33 GMT -5
The peduncles are generally a good way indeed. There must be something with difference in flowers too but I've never learned what I have to look at.
What's officially the biggest difference in seed to tell them apart? I have my own intuitive way of more or less seeing the difference, but I've never seen an official list.
Also, mixta is the same as argyrosperma I suppose?
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Post by raymondo on Jan 20, 2013 16:34:43 GMT -5
Attached is a summary of information I found a few years back. It may be helpful. Attachments:
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Post by atash on Jan 21, 2013 19:46:55 GMT -5
hortusbrambonii, try "Burpee Butterbush". It's the earliest maxima we're aware of, though some similar F1 hybrids might have it beat. It's an extremely determinate butternut type that makes small butternut squashes.
I am working on maximas suitable for maritime climates. I've got some dowdy little mongrels that bear pretty reliably here (47.5 degrees north; climate similar to that of Paris maybe). Small-fruited. I'm selecting them for reliability and long-keeping.
The coolest-growing Cucurbita that I am aware of is C. ficifolia, but its fruit is bland; it's grown for the seed. And it won't cross to other species as far as I am aware. Neither will the "Buffalo Gourd", which is perennial and probably fairly coldhardy. Too bad.
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