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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 26, 2013 23:39:55 GMT -5
Any manure, unless really aged, should never be used with potatoes unless only below the seed piece. Manure is invariably on the alkaline side and leads to common scab. Ha! I knew there was a reason I disliked manure, besides the weed seeds issue. Gardening is definitely about location, location, location. Manuring makes things grow worse in my garden. Since my soil is derived from limestone, it doesn't need any more alkalinity, and making it more alkaline reduces the availability of nutrients. This is not meant to sound rude or imply critisism but just confusion about why so many people are afraid of the stuff. The only manure I am careful of is poultry, the rest is heaped on without care. In my village, manure makes plants grow worse. Plant leaves turn chlorotic, growth is stunted. Then there is the weed seed issue. I'd pass on manure for that reason alone, even if it helped plant growth. One of the major usa meat packing plants is located a few miles from my garden, so bags of supposedly aged/composted manure are available very inexpensively... I won't let the stuff get anywhere near my garden: The GMO food-stocks, and residues of associated crop protection chemicals end up in the manure along with all the antibiotics, and antibiotic resistant bacteria. No thank you. Seems as dangerous as sewer sludge. I had a dead spot in my field for 3 years in the location where the horses had been fed. I attribute it to the effects of the residues of the crop protection chemicals. If anything would germinate in that area, growth was 75% slower than the same cultivars in other areas of the field. I used to pick up lawn clippings and leafs on the side of the road. That became a banned activity for me after I started visiting a lady in the suburbs and I noticed the tremendous amounts of poisons that her neighbors were applying to their lawns. I've about decided that the reason my garlic was sick is because of the aged manure I added to the bed last fall. The same cultivars that are growing in a non-amended field are not chlorotic.
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Post by steev on Apr 27, 2013 1:20:26 GMT -5
I have serious reservations about the weed seed issue. Granted, there are plants that need their seeds to be processed through some animal's gut to do well, but I think it not the rule. I've never seen weeds growing the first year ON a pile of horse poo; around the edges, yes, but why not, that being richly amended and the weed seeds being there (though not having passed through a horse's gut)'
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Post by richardw on Apr 27, 2013 14:38:02 GMT -5
My main garden has been 100% animal manure free for over 10 years and the compost i make doesnt get any added as well,instead of having manure to help break down the carbon the pine logs i use is aged for about four years till they start falling apart thats when they are added to the compost,that is all i add to the garden but i make use of a high legume turn over as part of the crop rotation to maintain fertility,seems to work very well.
I have used horse manure in the past in the potato garden,but now the soil in that garden is lovely and friable i wont be using any more.
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Post by ferdzy on Apr 27, 2013 15:20:49 GMT -5
I have planted carrots into a fresh horse manure pile and they have turned out great. At the end of four months when they were ready to pull the manure had broken down fully. As I said earlier, I have never had any trouble with root crops in manure so I wonder if some of you are working on rumour and hearsay rather than testing it out for yourselves. This is not meant to sound rude or imply critisism but just confusion about why so many people are afraid of the stuff. The only manure I am careful of is poultry, the rest is heaped on without care. Rowan, no, our carrots were definitely bad when we were adding any kind of compost or manure the same year. And we have used purchased regular manure from the garden centre (cow and sheep) as well as municipal compost, and the organic elk manure. Very forky whichever it was.
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Post by littleminnie on Apr 27, 2013 19:27:24 GMT -5
Funny to have such varied responses. I took all my leaves and all my garden weeds last year and made 3 compost piles. I turned and watered them all season, and today used the first 2 piles; the third still wasn't done. The first two piles amended 2 of my beds. That was all! Last fall all my waste went into a very large pile which I turned again the other day (now that it is spring). That huge pile will turn into enough for 3 garden beds I wager. My OM is low so I need the manure. I also use cover crops but haven't gotten them worked into reality as I always plan to. I have sulfured the potato beds last fall in prep and again this week to lower ph. I think some very aged manure would be ok scab-wise but I don't think I will have enough after all. I think I will plant them, then torch a week later, then dump on compost as the emerge to hill up, then mulch with corn stalk mulch. The ample amount of manure has not materialized.
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Post by paquebot on Apr 27, 2013 20:42:41 GMT -5
When planting potatoes, one can plant them in almost pure fresh manure and have perfect scab-free tubers. I've done it. Trenches were dug and several inches of horse manure slurry was poured in and saturated the soil. An inch or so of plain soil was spread over that and then the seed pieces set on that. The trenches were then back-filled with a 50/50 mix of fine-shredded pine boughs and soil. The potato roots were growing in an alkaline environment and the tubers formed in highly acidic conditions. That was an extreme to prove how it could be done to get scab-free tubers in infected soil. Soil and scab conditions have not changed but I continue to have no problem with scab. That's due to continued used of the same mix of shredded pine boughs which create a temporary acidic buffer during tuber development. In a normal year the pine bits are about gone in one season to become humus. Thus one is also improving the soil each year.
Martin
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 27, 2013 20:57:11 GMT -5
... continued used of the same mix of shredded pine boughs which create a temporary acidic buffer during tuber development. The few times I have used shredded pine boughs (or more specifically Picea pungens, Blue Spruce) in my potato patch the needles penetrated the potatoes and ended up inside the tubers at the end of the growing season.
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Post by raymondo on Apr 27, 2013 21:23:41 GMT -5
I've only used sheep manure direct on beds, but it wasn't fresh. Not really composted but certainly aged. The horse manure I have access to is fresher so I compost that first before adding it the beds.
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Post by littleminnie on Apr 28, 2013 19:47:58 GMT -5
I used pine needles as mulch one year and then worked it in later. I would love to get more but have no supply. However, I bought sulfur in quantity instead. My ph was over 7 last fall. I sulfured in fall and again in spring.
I guess potatoes are something I still am experimenting with. Last year the crop failed after 10 years of success. I think partly it was water failure. Also wonder if they didn't have enough nutrients. I started to learn they need rich soil or chemical fertilizers, not lean soil like sweet potatoes can handle. I hope to have a good crop and save my own seed again like I used to. 2 years ago when I had sulfured the fall previous the crop was pretty good despite it being that crazy potato beetle year. Last year there were almost no CPBs and a poor crop. It appeared the farmers also had less potato harvest than normal. The field next to me this year is going to be potatoes after 2 years of corn.
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Post by RpR on May 28, 2013 14:22:33 GMT -5
I use sheep manure, not really composted, not fresh, but closer to fresh than composted.
I had intended to put it in this year but since the garden was snow covered, as was the area around the garden to a depth where I did not want to get the trailer stuck and end up destroying flowers around the garden, it did not happen.
In the past though, I have put in said same manure, and planted potatoes in the hand turned then roto-tilled soil less than thirty days after application, with no more scab problem than existed without it. I do not recommend that but it can be done.
For my corn, the manure results can be seen quickly as the corn height is more even, not showing areas that are better than others a few feet away.
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