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Post by nicollas on Mar 4, 2014 5:54:03 GMT -5
There are some scientific papers on determinate fava beans and a "baby tipo" type for green pod consumption, but i've not found much info on that.
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 4, 2014 7:06:12 GMT -5
How do the pigeon peas do in your climate? It will be very interesting to hear if you haven't planted them already. Good pics!
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 4, 2014 7:20:27 GMT -5
blackox , be careful. What Joseph has are pigeonbeans, not pigeon peas. Pigeon peas (Cajanus cajan) are probably too tropical to grow well up here. Certainly I've never had one grow (and I have tried).
Joseph, is one of those large favas (the one all the way at the top right), speckled? Don't think I ever seen a fava with a patterned seed coat.
Not plant a lot of favas this year, since I don't have a lot. A late frost last year killed off the special favas I had saved out of the bags of horse beans I got at the Middle Eastern supermarket, and since then, that market has switched over to a pre-packaged brand of small fava that does not contain that particular type. I have a few of the horse beans left, both of the brown types Joseph showed and the dirty white kind (both with both brown and black hila) and Two yellow green larger favas that showed up in some Andean corn.
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Post by blackox on Mar 4, 2014 14:07:28 GMT -5
blackox , be careful. What Joseph has are pigeon beans, not pigeon peas. Pigeon peas ( Cajanus cajan) are probably too tropical to grow well up here. Certainly I've never had one grow (and I have tried). There's a difference? I thought they were two names for the same thing. Are they closely related?
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 4, 2014 14:42:54 GMT -5
Given that what Joeseph has in his picture is very clearly a sort of Fava and therefore a vetch, I'd say not. Pic of actual Pigeon peas Where Cajanus sits in the legume family I do not know (and I am no good with clade trees). Though the fact that the related Cajanus sacrabiodes(which I just found out is as close a relative to Cajanus cajan as you can get has at other times been put in the genera Atylosia,Rhynchosia, and Dolichos might give soem clues. I'm not saying that the aren't places where pigeon peas are called pigeon beans (Ive never heard them called so, but I suppose they might) just that, based on the picture what Joeseph has aren't pigeon peas.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 4, 2014 16:26:50 GMT -5
Joseph, is one of those large favas (the one all the way at the top right), speckled? Don't think I ever seen a fava with a patterned seed coat. That particular seed is already planted. But there was a somewhat similar one. Photos to follow. I had originally thought of the speckles as arising from physical damage, like what my peas get when a weevil larva bites or burrows into a seed. Watching for speckles this fall is on my list of things to do.
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 4, 2014 17:24:04 GMT -5
It's likely it is. A lot of my favas have damage like that just dark brown on brown instead of purple on tan. The purple color just threw me off. But if speckles show up in the next harvest, let me know
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Post by robertb on Mar 7, 2014 8:34:38 GMT -5
Pigeon peas are old pea varieties which have less sugar, and more carbohydate and protein, than modern ones. I've seen the term used of Carlin Pea, which goes back to the reign of Elizabeth I at least. They're not particularly closely related to these beans.
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 7, 2014 9:21:35 GMT -5
I think we are dealing with one of those "more than one thing having the same common name" situation. I don't doubt that the older starchy peas might have been called "Pigeon Peas", but what I was talking about was Cajanus cajan, a bushy legume of tropical areas, which is waht most people think of when they hear "Pigeon pea". It's the same way that Joseph's refers to his slighty larger favas a "horse beans" but "horse beans" can also refer to trhe legume Canavallia ensenformis Or "snake gourd" is used both for some of the cucuzzi type Langeia gourds and Tricosanthes cucumeria.
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Post by robertb on Mar 8, 2014 12:16:42 GMT -5
The old peas are still grown for pigeon food in the UK, and that's probably the origin of the name. I doubt whether C cajan would appreciate our climate!
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Post by petitvilaincanard on Mar 9, 2014 15:51:43 GMT -5
That photo you posted Joseph,i was sent some Fava seed from petitvilaincanard named 'nuts extra cold resistant',i'm doing a winter grow out for him,the seed looks so much like those horse beans in the photo and nothing like the large seeds which i normally grow,those been the shoulder high fava's that you seem to be quite impressed with. So i'm wondering if that's in fact that nuts extra cold resistant is Vicia faba var. equina because it certainly was a smaller plant to what i'm used to in a fava In fact the beans I sent you afaik are just a cross between culinary big favas and pigeon beans (what I call feveroles). Interesting is that 'nuts extra coldresistant' seems to be rather stable and don't seem to segregate very much to big favas and small favas maybe you can tell if this is still the case for the generation seeds you yielded(you're ahaid 1 generation compared to me). Joseph,I think growing favas in pots is useless They start big right on and,unless you have them in giant pots,they will suffer right away from the start on. I recommend to try autumn planting,if you have regular snowcover you might succeed.Best chances are with 'pigeon bean' types I can send you a bunch of seed from populations that are offspring from plants that survived very harsh conditions.('horsebean' and 'feverole' type) as well as the offspring from a mixed population from'cote d'or'(a feverole I obtained from a seed bank that should be very cold resistant) and my own very cold resistant feveroles.I can send a few hundreds, so that you'll have a good chance to build a cold resistant population even if you will have much losses the first season.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 9, 2014 22:33:37 GMT -5
Petivilaincanard: Thanks, I'll get them into the ground as soon as they start peeking out of the soil. I'm not importing seed these days.
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Post by robertb on Mar 12, 2014 6:56:21 GMT -5
That's interesting, thanks. I just planted some yesterday. After the very cold winters we've had in the recent past, cold resistance is going to be a useful characteristic. What sort of temperature are they likely to stand if they're autumn planted?
Growing them in pots is unlikely to be much good, but I start them in pots, then plant them out as seedlings, while they're still feeding off the original bean. This avoids problems with pigeons or mice, but they need protecting from slugs when they first go out.
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Post by blueadzuki on Mar 18, 2014 13:34:06 GMT -5
Joseph, is one of those large favas (the one all the way at the top right), speckled? Don't think I ever seen a fava with a patterned seed coat. That particular seed is already planted. But there was a somewhat similar one. Photos to follow. I had originally thought of the speckles as arising from physical damage, like what my peas get when a weevil larva bites or burrows into a seed. Watching for speckles this fall is on my list of things to do. More proof they are probably insect damage. While in the Middle Eastern Supermarket, I looked over what bags of favas they had (all large size) and some had almost identical speckles very clearly due to bugs (just, again dark brown on brown)In once case the bites were so regualr I though for a moment I had found a fava that developed a "ring" on each side of the seed (like the micropyle on seeds from the Mimosa family).
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Post by toad on Mar 19, 2014 15:12:35 GMT -5
Fava beans can have seed coat patterns:
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