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Post by aineo on Jul 9, 2014 10:23:23 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. Moschata is what I suspected too, though I do not have a strong enough understanding to make that determination.
Now for the untold story. These seeds were sent to me by another grower, and they are supposed to be the elusive Hopi Black Squash, which is documented everywhere I can find it as a Maxima. I just planted a couple of other shorter season Moschatas this morning with the hope that I will have time to do a pollination test before the end of the year.
If the Hopi Black is a Moschata and not a Maxima, it opens the possibility (and suspicion in my mind) that the Hopi Black is a Musquee de Provence (MdP) Squash that has been selectively bred for a small seed cavity. There is no way I can ever prove this, nor does it make that big of a difference, but I just find it intriguing.
God willing, I will have some seeds from these four plants this fall - five squash are growing now, two of which were hand pollinated and taped before and after. Next year I will try to cross breed with MdP to see if I get some crazy squash or if the resulting seeds continue to produce the same shape and characteristics, further evidencing (or not) my suspicions.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 9, 2014 11:20:58 GMT -5
aineo: Thanks for the background. Hopi Black (based on photos that I can find on the web) is a Moschata... Closely related to Musquee de Provence though no telling if they are cousins or if one descended from the other. The squash you posted photos of is definitely NOT a Maxima... The peduncle is wrong, the seeds are wrong, and the leaves are wrong. Keen101 posted this photo of Hopi Black to the group a while back. It shows the leaf mottling that is common on Moschata squash. alanbishop.proboards.com/post/72059/thread Contrast that to an archtypical Maxima squash plant from the same post. I have never observed mottled leaves in a Maxima squash.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 12, 2015 12:44:33 GMT -5
Yep. Based on my growout a few seasons ago and photos online i think its a moschata species. If i can grow it again this year i'll try crossing to a short season butternut.
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Post by castanea on May 12, 2015 22:55:08 GMT -5
I've grown Hopi Black. It looks like a moschata to me.
I have also grown MdP. There are some definite similarities but my Hopi Black had a longer season and produced a larger squash. MdP had a decent flavor though and HB was almost tasteless.
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Post by castanea on May 12, 2015 22:56:51 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. Moschata is what I suspected too, though I do not have a strong enough understanding to make that determination. Now for the untold story. These seeds were sent to me by another grower, and they are supposed to be the elusive Hopi Black Squash, which is documented everywhere I can find it as a Maxima. I just planted a couple of other shorter season Moschatas this morning with the hope that I will have time to do a pollination test before the end of the year. If the Hopi Black is a Moschata and not a Maxima, it opens the possibility (and suspicion in my mind) that the Hopi Black is a Musquee de Provence (MdP) Squash that has been selectively bred for a small seed cavity. There is no way I can ever prove this, nor does it make that big of a difference, but I just find it intriguing. God willing, I will have some seeds from these four plants this fall - five squash are growing now, two of which were hand pollinated and taped before and after. Next year I will try to cross breed with MdP to see if I get some crazy squash or if the resulting seeds continue to produce the same shape and characteristics, further evidencing (or not) my suspicions. Very interesting theory regarding HB and MdP. What led you in that direction? Another difference I found between the two was that HB produced almost no viable seeds at all.
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Post by castanea on May 13, 2015 23:45:05 GMT -5
I was just reading that MdP usually produces few seeds.
How did MdP ever get renamed as Hopi Black?
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 14, 2015 10:51:27 GMT -5
Never having grown mdp myself i wouldnt know the exact differences between the two, but they seem practically the same. Hb might be slightly longer season and slightly less tasty than mdp. So if it became "extinct" it probably would be no great loss.
It's a beautiful squash, but at 120 days to grow its at the very edge of my ecological limit. Plus the seeds are consistently in bad shape. The only use for me would to breed it to a short season butternut squash. Which i do hope to try this year if i can.
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Post by castanea on May 15, 2015 23:29:58 GMT -5
It seems to me that HB is slightly longer season, slightly larger and slightly less tasty than MdP.
But still, they do seem quite similar.
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