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Post by DarJones on Sept 2, 2014 20:16:58 GMT -5
I am going to design a new variety of corn and attempt to produce it over the next few years. Here are the traits I want to incorporate.
High oil corn is available from ARS-grin. It produces more oil by making a larger germ in the kernel. The larger the germ, the more oil in the seed. Oil generally is not deposited in the starch portion of the kernel so I will be deliberately sacrificing a bit of the starch content to increase oil content.
I want elongated cobs that make square kernels instead of the wide flat kernels typically seen. I have 2 varieties of indian corn that produce ears with these traits.
I want high protein corn that is boosted for Lysine and Methionine. I got two varieties from USDA a few years ago and have some advanced stock ready to grow next year.
I want high production. I can get this from Cherokee Squaw which I am already working on.
I want to double the number of kernels by including the shoepeg trait. I can get this from Country Gentleman sweet corn.
To start this project, I crossed (Country Gentleman X Silver King) X Cherokee Squaw this year. I should recover some shoepeg cobs in the F2 generation. I also have the two high protein corns crossed to Cherokee Squaw as an initial step toward producing higher producing high protein lines.
My vision of this corn is that the extended cupules will allow room for the shoepeg trait to express without so much squeezing of the kernels. The high oil trait combined with shoepeg means the oil content of a cob of corn will double because I get twice as many kernels with shoepeg. This should increase the energy content of a given amount of corn by between 20 and 30 percent. By adding the genes for lysine and methionine, I should gain an increase in the two critical types of protein that corn is most deficient in. By stacking these genes into a highly productive variety, I should wind up with a corn that makes a lot of feed in relatively little space. The last trait I want is a flint kernel because that packs the starch into the minimum space so a chicken can get more nutrients for a given volume of corn eaten. I can recover the flint traits from the indian corn and from Country Gentleman.
So why do I want to grow a corn like this? Because I want to feed my chickens corn that has enough protein and total energy content that they do not need supplemental soy protein to lay eggs.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Sept 3, 2014 10:27:55 GMT -5
My impression from the Illinois Protein Strains and Oil Strains experiments is that while you can have high protein, and high oil, you can't have them and have maximum yeild at the same time. At least no one has figured out how to do it in an OP corn program thus far. It will be awesome if you can do it, but I don't think it is going to happen in a couple of years. That's a life's work project IMO.
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Post by nicollas on Sept 4, 2014 1:44:33 GMT -5
I hope you'll not take my comment as an offense but have you considered to grow/breed more suitable species for your project ? Like oil sunflowers or even Black Soldier Fly larvae grubs ? Or grow "regular" corn and mix its carbs with a more oil/protein crop ?
do you have a way to assess for protein content in your selections ?
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 5, 2014 16:09:18 GMT -5
Dar, If I can be of any help next year, let me know. I'll save a block for your project. I do grow sunflowers for the chickens, but I've been having a high degree of bird predation. The little varmints have migrated early. I guess they haven't had much food. They are now working ALL the seed crops except corn. (Millet, sorghum, mint, cosmos, sunflowers!) Last week they ate a 50 foot row of lettuce, one bite at a time. By the end of the week, there wasn't a leaf left. The drought continues. Dar, your "4 Toed Drought Tolerant Hickory King Timber Corn" is ready to harvest. I ate one cob raw and it was pretty darn good. I'm going to try and get it out of the field this weekend. And then I'll write the review.
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 21, 2014 15:47:36 GMT -5
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 21, 2014 21:04:07 GMT -5
Update, corn is sooo heavy that it separated the links on the 200 lb chain. Leo had to re-hang it on 350 lb chain. Yikes!
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Post by copse on Sept 22, 2014 0:42:14 GMT -5
Update, corn is sooo heavy that it separated the links on the 200 lb chain. Leo had to re-hang it on 350 lb chain. Yikes! Any chance of a picture of it hanging? I want to see how the pros do it.
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 23, 2014 17:04:18 GMT -5
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Post by flowerweaver on Sept 23, 2014 20:59:01 GMT -5
That's some good looking corn Holly!
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Post by steev on Sept 23, 2014 21:46:00 GMT -5
Holly: been a crap year for me, corn-wise, though decent for Vigna, generally.
Tomatoes are OK, but I put that to my futzing around, instead of getting down to business; I WILL let my curiosity overrule my practicality; I'm getting better about that, perhaps.
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Post by Carol Deppe on Sept 28, 2014 20:24:28 GMT -5
It's more costly for a plant to produce protein than carbohydrate. Indian and heirloom corns often have higher protein content than modern hybrid dents because the latter have been heavily selected for yield, and lost protein content as a byproduct. I think if you succeed at increasing the protein content your yield will go down enough to make up the difference so that you won't actually improve your protein yield per acre significantly.
I don't quite understand the point of wanting higher oil content. Poultry don't need more vegetable oil in their diets. And breeder for higher oil content also is likely to cost you total yield.
If you want more protein per acre or more balanced protein than corn, try potatoes. They produce both more protein and more carb/acre than corn. The protein to carb balance is almost perfect. Just slightly under perfect. Nothing a few worms can't solve.
I think it can be a mistake to want one food to do everything. It's often not possible. And even if it were, it's not necessarily desirable. If I had a corn that had exactly the protein:Carb content I need with just the right amino acid balance, would I rejoice and forsake all other foods and bind to and just eat that corn for the rest of my life? NO! And if you made me eat just that corn for a while, I would soon be thoroughly sick of it, and would be desperate for almost anything else. I think my quality of life and joy in existing is enhanced by having many foods. I suspect the same is true for the average chicken or duck. When I free range ducks I give them a bucket of corn, a bucket of (soybean meal containing) high protein (20%) broiler chow), and a bucket full of cooked potatoes or squash in winter. They eat more corn when it is colder. Less broiler chow when the day is perfect to bring out lots of big earthworms. Less broiler chow and no corn when they get potatoes. And so on. A smorgasboard. And minimal feed costs and maximally happy ducks.
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Post by dustdevil on Sept 29, 2014 10:50:45 GMT -5
If you want more protein per acre or more balanced protein than corn, try potatoes. They produce both more protein and more carb/acre than corn. The protein to carb balance is almost perfect. Just slightly under perfect. Nothing a few worms can't solve. The soil you grow in, the varieties chosen, and the weather decides whether potatoes or corn yields more protein per acre. For a farmer growing in zone 4 heavy soil in my area, corn is the most productive. Potato starts would come out of the ground at harvest time about the same size as when they went in and a bit rotten to boot.
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Post by DarJones on Oct 2, 2014 1:49:54 GMT -5
My objective is not to increase yield per acre. It is to increase eggs laid per hen for given feed input. I am considering this from the subsistence farm perspective where chicken eggs can be a significant source of protein. A chicken eats a certain amount of feed each day. If that feed is low in protein, she lays eggs that are less hatchable and the interval between eggs is longer. A subsistence farmer won't necessarily have access to other feeds such as soybeans and potatoes. They will have access to corn and if it happens to have higher total energy content and higher protein, then egg production should increase.
One of the additives in chicken feed is vegetable oil. Feed companies add it to increase total energy content. It improves feather sheen and comb color. Too much is wasted, too little and the birds are lethargic and grow slowly.
By increasing and better balancing protein content and at the same time increasing oil content, I hope to improve egg production and chicken health.
P.S. you should see my blue egg laying straight comb Brown Leghorns! They are beautiful birds and lay sky blue eggs.
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Post by steev on Oct 2, 2014 18:45:56 GMT -5
Yes; yes, we should!
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Post by 12540dumont on Oct 2, 2014 20:19:40 GMT -5
Dar, are you sending me chicks? I love sky blue. I totally agree about the protein and the eggs. When my chickens start getting low on the eggs, I throw them cat food, beef and pork fat and they pick up right away. It's been so horribly dry here, that the worms are about a foot below the soil. Potatoes here are a major effort of hilling and digging. I'm NOT sharing. No chicken gets anything but the peels, and I have to cook those or they don't eat them. Right now they are eating last year's squash. The love the seeds, but I have to cook the hulls to get them to eat 'em. Sky blue eggs. I want sky blue eggs. Actually, I'd settle for any eggs. Since the last coyote attack, I'm down to the dowager empress hens. The are resentful and disgruntled and are only laying an egg a week. Whole flock must be plucked and stewed. New chicks needed this spring.
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