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Post by kyredneck on Sept 4, 2014 14:44:41 GMT -5
Is this normal for this plant (Tahiti squash) this time of year? The leaves have died for about the first 3/4 length of the plant, the end leaves are still green and the vines are still green their entire lengths (4 plants) and a couple of the fruits appear to have been 'self-pruned'.
Incidentally, my Dad's and his neighbor's butternuts both are doing the same.
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Post by flowerweaver on Sept 4, 2014 16:18:12 GMT -5
Mine are doing similar, but I'm a lot farther south. I would say those squash look good and mature. I harvest mine when the vine entirely dies to which they are attached. That said, in years when the field mice are chewing into them I harvest at what looks to be this stage.
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 4, 2014 16:30:07 GMT -5
Yea, I'm pretty sure the majority of them are mature; 120 DTM for Tahiti squash, I started them in pots first of April and set the [blooming/fruiting] 6' vines out mid June, they should have their 120 days in; I've read somewhere someone said they had Tahiti squash finish ripening off the vine; I know Dad routinely picks his butternuts while still with some green and they turn tan and keep well.
Someone told me we're about 9" above normal rainfall for this locale so far this year; I wonder if that may have something to do with this?
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 4, 2014 16:37:16 GMT -5
Mine are doing similar, but I'm a lot farther south. I would say those squash look good and mature. I harvest mine when the vine entirely dies to which they are attached. That said, in years when the field mice are chewing into them I harvest at what looks to be this stage. Are you growing Moschatas?
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Post by flowerweaver on Sept 4, 2014 17:03:21 GMT -5
Yes, quite a few in my landrace project. Unfortunately my Tahitian ones were killed in June by baseball sized hail as were San Jose Mountain Club, Santa Fe Banana, Guyana, Seminole, Shishigitani, Palav Kadu, and Alligator. The only moschata that survived was Violina Rugosa.
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Post by mskrieger on Sept 4, 2014 19:36:59 GMT -5
You sure have a lot of squash! I'm impressed. Is Tahitian melon particularly good-tasting?
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 5, 2014 5:51:21 GMT -5
.....my landrace project...... Can you tell me more or direct me to a thread so I can know more about it?
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 5, 2014 7:23:55 GMT -5
You sure have a lot of squash! I'm impressed. Is Tahitian melon particularly good-tasting? I grew one vine of this squash one season >30 years ago when Thompson & Morgan offered it and have never forgotten it's productivity; though I never thought to weigh them, it probably exceeded 100 lbs. of fruit from that one plant. But we were in town then and the plant required too much of our limited space to grow and, most of all, we weren't such big winter squash eaters then so that was the last time I grew it till this year. I wouldn't doubt these 4 vines this season have exceeded 100 lbs. each also; if it pans out to be convenient to do so I may weigh these to see.
I had a humongous brush pile 'up on the hill' that had accumulated over a couple years that I burnt early this spring. I planted the 4 vines at one end of the burn spot and 'encouraged' them along towards the other end. Apparently moschata really digs wood ashes because these things loved the spot and grew rampantly even though the topsoil on this ridge is only about 12" deep before hitting slate. I also incorporated lots of compost and rotted manure in and around the hills when planting them.
A late 70s article in Organic Gardening magazine that touted the sweetness and long keeping characteristics of this squash is what first perked my interest in growing it. Supposedly it was good to eat raw, like a melon, so I just had to grow it, expecting to eat 'fresh melon' from the garden through the winter, lol. Not. But it is as sweet as a butternut, at least. Since then we've come to love winter squash and grow and eat butternuts and the idee hit me this past winter to utilize the upcoming burn spot for some more Tahiti squash, and, voilĂ ! Another gardening success story.
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Post by flowerweaver on Sept 5, 2014 8:41:32 GMT -5
kyredneck Many folks here on the forum are developing landraces for all kinds of vegetables, so the more you read you'll find a treasure trove of information. Just use the search feature and you'll pull up a ton of information. Although practiced by humans for thousands of years, it sort of turns gardening--as it has evolved in the last 200 years--on it's head. A lot of work goes into trying to keep heirloom seed 'pure', and much of it is seriously inbred. This can lead to total crop failure in today's ever-changing weather patterns. Most of the hybrid seed readily available today keeps people beholden to seed companies and has been developed for large scale agriculture, which selects for uniformity and ripeness at the same time for ease of harvest. Most home and market gardeners would prefer variety and to harvest over a period of several weeks. Joseph, who is one of the moderators here, has written a series of articles on this topic available online at Mother Earth News. If you google 'landrace' you are sure to pull them up. Many of us ended up here because of it. Basically the concept of creating a landrace is to try to incorporate as much genetic diversity into a plant that it will be better able to adapt to one's locale and the changing environment. You plant as much genetic material of a specific species (in this case, C. moschata) and let it be promiscuously pollinated (or, in the case of inbreeding vegetables, hand pollinated). Repeatedly saving and planting out the resulting seed over the next seasons you can start selecting for traits you desire, such as frost tolerance, taste, color, etc. This spring all my landrace projects (squash, melon, bean, corn) went through a late frost, drought, flood, baseball-sized hail, and a tornado! Of the things that survived and produced I have saved seed. Of the C. moschata, only the Violina Rugosa produced but it was likely pollinated by all the others, so the resulting grow out of the saved seed next year should show some diversity and be better adapted to my harsh environment.
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 5, 2014 9:01:59 GMT -5
It's odd, I had actually considered interplanting Walthams with the Tahitians 'just to see' what would develop from it over the years, but the idea to maintain purity prevailed; in fact I didn't even grow butternuts this year because I wanted to avoid cross pollination, didn't expect to miss them, and foregoing the butternuts freed up space for me to dabble with several varieties of pole beans this season.
FWIW, the idea of landrace gardening is appealing to me. Thanks for the direction.
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 5, 2014 9:55:16 GMT -5
.....the idea of landrace gardening is appealing to me..... I have enjoyed 'The Resilient Gardener' so much that I ordered her other book 'Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties' earlier this week, and then I stumbled upon this site, and as you say have found a "treasure trove" of info from people who are actually doing it. It's funny how things just 'fall into place' sometimes.
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Post by flowerweaver on Sept 5, 2014 10:05:06 GMT -5
I enjoyed those books, too. It all goes hand in hand with the landrace concept. I can see trying to keep a family heirloom pure for sentimental reasons. But since my family didn't pass down any seeds, I'm totally into subsistence gardening and developing something that will feed my family. Although I have gardened for many decades, this is my first year working with landraces, so I'm still in the phase of seeing what survives. I think this spring put everything to an excellent test!
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Post by raymondo on Sept 5, 2014 23:01:29 GMT -5
It's a great way to develop material that works well in your climate and soils and suits your gardening habits.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 9, 2014 22:57:49 GMT -5
Is this normal for this plant (Tahiti squash) this time of year? Looks normal to me:
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Post by oxbowfarm on Sept 10, 2014 8:05:59 GMT -5
Very general rule of thumb for moschata is for earliest harvest at 49-55 days after pollination, followed by a 3-4 week curing period for starch-sugar conversion to improve eating quality. I wish they had Growing Degree Day data instead of "days after pollination", since seed maturation and starch conversion are clearly temperature dependent, but that is a pretty good document from a hotshot public squash breeder. It looks like pretty normal vine die-down from powdery mildew.
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