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Post by Walk on Nov 11, 2014 11:13:50 GMT -5
Another year of searching for the best maxima for our garden and table has passed. This year we only grew 4 varieties, Flat White Boer from Sandhill, Brown-Seeded Buttercup from Plum Creek Seeds, Uncle Dave's Dakota Dessert from Fedco, and the hybrid Nutty Delica, also from Fedco. The rodents preferred the B.S. Buttercup and Uncle Dave's by far and they were our favorites as well. The Brown-Seeded Buttercup is indistinguishable from the Uncle Dave's on the plate except for the seeds have a very hard shell that is unpalatable when roasted. The Uncle Dave's was earlier and seemed more prolific except the rodents ate most of the early-set fruits before we saw there was a problem going on. Interestingly, the hybrid Nutty Delica wasn't bothered by rodents, as was also the case with the Flat White Boer. The Nutty Delica's taste is comparable to either of the buttercup types, but the Flat White Boer is bland at best. We'll see how it compares storage-wise as it's supposed to be a good keeper.
I was wondering if anyone knows if the Sweet Meat squash sold by Fedco is the same as the Sweet Meat - Oregon Homestead squash offered by Fertile Valley Seeds? Last year we grew the Fedco Sweet Meat and the flavor was quite bland - about like the Flat White Boer we grew this year. Even though the Uncle Dave's and Brown Seeded Buttercup have outstanding flavor, I would still like to find a variety that could match them AND be a good keeper too, as is the supposed to be the case with the Sweet Meat.
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Post by flowerweaver on Nov 11, 2014 11:44:49 GMT -5
I have also found the most delectable winter squashes and melons are preferred by our field mice. I have yet to harvest a Kabocha. I have six cats and four terriers that work the place. I also set out live traps (so my animals don't get injured) and poison is out of the question. Do you have any strategies for combating their destruction Walk? This year I painstakingly built a couple of hardware cloth prototype cages to fit around some I didn't want to lose for seed and that helped. But I can't build enough to protect them all!
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Post by blackox on Nov 11, 2014 12:25:33 GMT -5
Walk, moist or dry flesh for the Flat White Boer? flowerweaver, I have little experience with defending my crop from rodents, but perhaps you can try sprinkling dried wormwood around the area? Maybe you could also try a hot pepper solution, or maybe some of that urine from large predators that you might find at a large hunting store like Cabella's (they sell it in large bottles).
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Post by Carol Deppe on Nov 11, 2014 13:23:01 GMT -5
I was wondering if anyone knows if the Sweet Meat squash sold by Fedco is the same as the Sweet Meat - Oregon Homestead squash offered by Fertile Valley Seeds? Last year we grew the Fedco Sweet Meat and the flavor was quite bland - about like the Flat White Boer we grew this year. Even though the Uncle Dave's and Brown Seeded Buttercup have outstanding flavor, I would still like to find a variety that could match them AND be a good keeper too, as is the supposed to be the case with the Sweet Meat. Walk, the Sweet Meat sold by Fedco is not 'Sweet Meat--Oregon Homestead'. I think everyone who is selling it is selling it by its full name. Nichols Garden Nursery is also a good source, and they sell exactly the same seed I sell since I wholesale it to them. Adaptive Seeds and Bountiful Gardens also sell it from their own growouts. (Both pay me a voluntary royalty. Nice of them, since they didn't have to, since it is a fully public domain release.) I don't think the standard commercial Sweet Meat is worth growing any more. Hearing that your Flat White Boer was bland is a disappointment. I grew it decades ago, and at that point it was very sweet with a powerful distinctive flavor quite different from any other squash. You might try getting it from some other source and seeing if it is better. Yes, 'Sweet Meat--Oregon Homestead is a great keeper. I expect them all to last through spring, just getting sweeter and more intensely flavored the whole time. Occasional ones have even lasted two years, but beyond about April the attrition rate goes way up.
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Post by Carol Deppe on Nov 11, 2014 13:31:15 GMT -5
Flowerweaver, hard-shelled squash are less vulnerable to rodents than the leathery skinned types. If I had a huge rodent problem I'd grow Hubbards instead of my Sweet Meat--Oregon Homestead. Or I'd cross the too and try to pull out something with the Hubbard hard shell and the SM-OH thick flesh.
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Post by Carol Deppe on Nov 11, 2014 13:34:30 GMT -5
Walk, moist or dry flesh for the Flat White Boer? Blackox, back when I grew Flat White Boer it was very moist fleshed, and didn't keep well. But is was fine-grained, had a different distinct flavor, and was really delicious. To be workable for most of us, we need someone to get a good line of it and cross it to something drier that stores better and go from there.
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Post by flowerweaver on Nov 11, 2014 14:27:51 GMT -5
blackox I've tried fox urine and instead of scaring off the rodents it attracted foxes--not so good for my free-ranging chickens!
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Post by flowerweaver on Nov 11, 2014 14:49:57 GMT -5
Carol Deppe I tried a Navajo Orange Hubbard this year but it was taken out by the hail during the tornado. I don't know if it has the characteristic hard shell of the regular blue ones. I have not tried a Blue Hubbard, only because I thought they were for northern gardens. But if you think one would do well here, I will try it next year. So far the most rodent-resistant I've grown are Galeux d'Eysines (maxima)and Illinois (mixta). This year I had a few Violina Rugosa (moschata) make and the one I cooked was tasty. I also harvested some Cuares Mera and Gila Cliff Dweller (both mixta)that went unscathed. My guess is the prolific number of melons consumed by them were a decoy. So, between the hail/tornado/rodents this is all I harvested from over 100 plants!
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Post by Walk on Nov 11, 2014 15:09:19 GMT -5
Thanks for everyone's input. Our strategy for the rodents was to put out traps since our 1 cat was unable to keep up, even though she catches several critters each day. The snap traps were working the best, but after catching a bird and a toad by their legs (released both but not sure if either was OK) we made a fence corral for each trap. Using 6" wide scraps of 2' fencing with 1"x2" mesh, I bent them into a circle and topped them with old dinner plates. The mesh, being 1" wide and 2" tall, keeps out most critters except for mice and voles. The other big plus for this setup was that no traps were hauled away and I could easily see where they were placed. The other strategy we used was to prop up the fruits on some upside-down flowerpots. This really cut down on the damage and along with the trapping will be what we'll do next year - BEFORE the damage starts! Funny that the other squash varieties we grew, Butternut, Gill's Golden Pippen, and Sugar Dumpling, were all untouched by mice even though they were adjacent to the hills being eaten which were at opposite corners of the patch.
As for the Flat White Boer, in Sandhill's catalog they say it's supposed to be very firm and very dry. Not so far, but maybe it will change in storage?
Carol, I'll have to order some of your Sweet Meat squash as I need something that will store better than the Buttercup types. I posted a question about your Cascade Ruby-Gold flint corn in the discussion elsewhere on this forum and will probably be putting in an order for that seed as well.
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Post by rowan on Nov 11, 2014 15:58:39 GMT -5
Walk, have you tried our Australian maximas: Queensland Blue and Triamble? They store really well, a year or more but the QB has such a hard skin that many people use a hatchet to get into them. Maybe the rodents woudn't touch them. I'm not sure how they compare on taste though as they are generally the only maximas grown here. They are popular here but I can't compare with other varieties as I haven't tasted others.
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Post by blackox on Nov 11, 2014 16:45:43 GMT -5
Carol Deppe - I guess that I'll have to try Flat White Boer next year and see how they turn out in my climate. About the hardness or hubbard skin and their "resistance" to being chewed on - do the smaller hubbard varieties have that same trait as the larger ones? Starting next year I'll be growing all of my large vining crops in an area that isn't fenced, and I don't want to many of my squashes going to the deer.
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Post by blackox on Nov 11, 2014 16:48:36 GMT -5
Flower - I didn't think of that! Maybe urine from a predator that doesn't exist in your area? Any zoos nearby?
Walk -Rowan's suggestion isn't a bad one, I've still got a Triamble squash that I bought from a store over a year ago!
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Post by raymondo on Nov 11, 2014 16:50:07 GMT -5
Walk, have you tried our Australian maximas: Queensland Blue and Triamble? They store really well, a year or more but the QB has such a hard skin that many people use a hatchet to get into them. Maybe the rodents woudn't touch them. I'm not sure how they compare on taste though as they are generally the only maximas grown here. They are popular here but I can't compare with other varieties as I haven't tasted others. There appear to be at least two strains of Triamble: one with smooth lobes and the other with furrowed lobes. The former, when I tried it, was very good flavour-wise but the latter only so-so. Mind you they were not grown side-by-side but in different years so the difference may only be due to that.
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Post by Carol Deppe on Nov 11, 2014 21:05:10 GMT -5
Walk, have you tried our Australian maximas: Queensland Blue and Triamble? They store really well, a year or more but the QB has such a hard skin that many people use a hatchet to get into them. Maybe the rodents woudn't touch them. The way I open a hard-shelled squash (that is, one with an actual woody shell, like Blue Hubbard, for example) is to just drop it on the driveway. If you drop it from just the right height it splits cleanly in two with the halves held together with a little bit of the seedy debris. And the seeds stay inside ready for removal and saving. So I drop from waist high initially, and if that doesn't work, go higher until the squash breaks. To open big squash with thick leathery skins, like Sweet Meat--Oregon Homestead I use a 2-hand katana machete I bought from Cold Steel. It has a 2-foot long blade with a flat (not curved) sharp edge (so it goes all the way through a squash). I just lay the knife on the squash so as to divide it into two even pieces and pound it with a rubber mallet. That way I can divide the squash into two nice even pieces with just one knife cut. I think any squash with a woody shell would be less vulnerable to rodents. By the time the squash develops much sweetness, it is harder to get in to.
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Post by Carol Deppe on Nov 11, 2014 21:14:18 GMT -5
Carol Deppe - I guess that I'll have to try Flat White Boer next year and see how they turn out in my climate. About the hardness or hubbard skin and their "resistance" to being chewed on - do the smaller hubbard varieties have that same trait as the larger ones? Starting next year I'll be growing all of my large vining crops in an area that isn't fenced, and I don't want to many of my squashes going to the deer. As far as I know, all the Hubbards have a hard woody shell. I haven't tried them all. But I suspect that's part of the definition. I've sometimes had major problems with deer in the Sweet Meat--Oregon Homestead plantings. They will walk by everything else and take multiple big bites our of the SMs. As long as they don't bite all the way into the seed cavity, the bite spots generally heal, and the squash can still be used. But they need to be used first, as they don't store as long as the unblemished fruits. Fortunately, there are few deer where I am currently planting them. If I had lots of hail, deer, and rodents I think I would start trialing every hard-shelled squash around. And of course breeding new ones of my own.
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