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Post by reed on May 28, 2015 8:16:18 GMT -5
Has anyone already tried or succeeded to cross these? I don't actually plant the current tomatoes but rather just let them grow volunteer every year. I notice they do get some foliage disease but make jillions of those tiny little fruits anyway. The woman LOVES them. I'v read that they will cross with each other so must have open flowers. Wonder what might happen if I try to mix them with Stupice or some of Joseph Lofthouse 's open flowered ones.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 28, 2015 11:25:51 GMT -5
A lady gave me current tomatoes last fall. I'm presuming that they are pimpinellifolium. They are certainly pimpernel-leaved. I saved the seeds. They are currently flowering. They have tiny closed up flowers: As industrialized-looking tomato flower as I have ever seen.
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Post by reed on May 28, 2015 14:32:54 GMT -5
I'v grown them for years but never paid any attention to the flowers. Didn't know or think about such things until recently. I'll observe closely this year and take pictures.
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Post by reed on Jun 1, 2015 3:51:07 GMT -5
Joseph Lofthouse , Some of mine are blooming and you sure are right, the middle part of the flower is a tight pointed little structure. O'well I got plenty to play with in the seeds you sent me. I have one from the "early all kinds" pack whose leaves look almost fern like. Looking forward to seeing what kind of fruit it makes.
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Post by DarJones on Jun 1, 2015 7:30:06 GMT -5
The range of stamen protrusion for S. Pimpinellifolium ranges from tightly enclosed inside the anther cone to protruding up to 1/4 inch. Instead of focusing on the flower shape, talk about how much the stamen protrudes.
I have 2 lines growing as F2 plants this year from a cross of LA0417, one female parent was Piennolo del Vesuvio, the other was Tastiheart. I am expecially interested in this cross because LA0417 has the best disease tolerance in the group of species readily crossable to domestic tomato.
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Post by 12540dumont on Jun 1, 2015 12:48:06 GMT -5
Dar! I want seeds from that cross!
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Post by reed on Jun 1, 2015 13:02:30 GMT -5
It doesn't look like the stamen protrudes at all. Maybe they aren't completely open yet. It's been oddly cool and cloudy for a few days and only a few have started to bloom, I'll keep watching.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 1, 2015 14:02:50 GMT -5
The version of Solanum pimpinellifolium that I am growing has stamens that are completely enclosed by the anther cone.
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Post by DarJones on Jun 1, 2015 17:54:18 GMT -5
That makes me curious Joseph, the lines I got from TGRC are all everted stamens. I wonder if yours is a cross with domestic tomato? S. Pimpinellifolium makes fruit the size of a pea. If it is larger than 1/2 inch diameter, it is most likely crossed with a large fruited variety.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 1, 2015 20:14:18 GMT -5
A lady gave me fruits last summer. They were about the size of a large pea, perhaps 5/16" in diameter. There are out-crossing and inbreeding populations of Solanum pimpinellifolium (1). Unfortunately, I got hooked up with an inbreeding population. So it looks like in addition to exerted stigmas, that I should be selecting for things like larger sized and more showy petals and more flowers per inflorescence. Perhaps determinate tomatoes with flowers on the ends of the stems are more attractive to pollinators than indeterminates where the flowers are hidden by foliage. I really aughta post a close-up photo of a tomatillo flower. Reference: (1) Genetic Analysis of Traits Distinguishing Outcrossing and Self-Pollinating Forms of Currant Tomato, Lycopersiconpimpinellifolium
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Post by steev on Jun 1, 2015 21:25:33 GMT -5
Tomatilloes have more obvious flowers, which probably explains why they're better "weeds" than tomatoes; I think nobody plants currant tomatoes in Guatemala; they're just there in the cornfield (doubtless due to their intermediaries, humans), another useful "weed", tasty in a "chirmol" salsa.
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Post by swamper on Jun 2, 2015 3:17:48 GMT -5
I'm growing f1 from a cross I made last year between S. Pimpinellifolium and Black Mystery. The Black Mystery I have came from Gleckler's and is like an earlier Cherokee Purple. The S. Pimpinellifolium parent was exceptionally deep red in color. I have 2 f1 plants and the first flowers forming look like cherries. I will take a closer look at the stamens. I'm very curious to see and taste the results.
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Post by reed on Jun 2, 2015 4:36:42 GMT -5
Mine make large clusters of the pea sized fruits that are light orange in color and very sweet. I'm sure now that they are the inbreeding kind. It looks to me like the flower doesn't open at all.
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Post by kctomato on Jun 17, 2015 10:24:22 GMT -5
reed, the answer to your original question is that many crosses have been made between these two species.
The Pimp species is where breeders, decades ago, got firmness, disease resistance and increased soluble solids traits.
Many of the very sweet cherry tomatoes have Pimp in their linage. It seems to be where Asian breeders got increased brix levels (based on inference via tracing back research papers that they have published).
S. pimpinellifolium has been a source for bacterial wilt and fusarium resistance.
The original line for the trait of firmness, which has been incorporated into most modern commercial tomato cultivars, traces back to a S pimpinellifolium line. This is the trait everyone attributes to commercial tomatoes being hard like baseballs.
There is much diversity in S. pimpinellifolium. Some self, some don't. Some exhert more than others (can also be environmentally triggered). Thefoliage of S. pimpinellifolium varies between all the lines. The foliage within an individual line can be very uniform to very different within a population.
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Post by darrenabbey on Jun 18, 2015 3:00:07 GMT -5
The original line for the trait of firmness, which has been incorporated into most modern commercial tomato cultivars, traces back to a S pimpinellifolium line. This is the trait everyone attributes to commercial tomatoes being hard like baseballs. I was pretty sure the baseball trait was caused by the prevalence of the ripening-inhibution mutation, which was found in a breeder's field in the 1960's, rather than a trait introgressed from S. pimpinellifolium. That trait and others ( the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com/2014/03/evolution-and-tomatoes.html) results in the nearly-tasteless commercial production types that survive shipping so well.
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