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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 3, 2016 14:05:22 GMT -5
When I plant random varieties of potatoes that have been jumbled together from seed swaps, about 5% of the tubers are plain old nasty. About 10% are less than desirable. The great majority taste fine. Potato poisons are well behaved. They taste super bitter. Except perhaps in ripe fruits, but then they are highly emetic, so no worries.
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Post by gilbert on Jan 3, 2016 15:40:13 GMT -5
Hi Joseph,
Thanks for the reply. So I can give potatoes to those involved in the project, but not to a food bank, say.
So as you develop a landrace, will you be able to eliminate the possibility of nasty tastes so that you could sell them? ( I can't imagine selling potatoes with a warning 5% of these are nasty!)
I suppose you bake instead of boil the potatoes to eliminate one bad potato spoiling the whole batch?
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Post by gilbert on Jan 4, 2016 11:41:04 GMT -5
Hi toomanyirons,
It is the the book "How to Grow More Vegetables" by John Jeavons.
They have charts for yield per plant, yield per hundred square feet, calorie per pound, etc. for lots of different plants. And they have three yield levels; beginner, intermediate, and advanced.
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Post by gilbert on Jan 4, 2016 13:33:01 GMT -5
Hello Reed,
Yes, their numbers have always struck me as very high. Then again, they have been experimenting and refining the system on their site for 25 years, and improving the soil at the same time. So they have every little detail down pat and excellent soil to work with. Their method is a lot of work.
Since I want my system be be usable on pavement, I'm not using Bio intensive techniques. And I'm not using them on my farm system because it is such a lot of work, and needs daily sprinkling with water. (Though it uses less water overall then other methods, due to the high yields per square foot.)
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Post by nathanp on Jan 4, 2016 14:01:26 GMT -5
Consider me a skeptic. That sounds like propoganda to me.
My math is similar, but I doubt I've ever had 100lbs from a similar row.
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Post by gilbert on Jan 4, 2016 14:15:41 GMT -5
New Thread started to see if anybody has tried Biointensive methods, and with what result. I can't really say if it is hype or not, having never tried it.
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Post by nathanp on Jan 4, 2016 18:48:00 GMT -5
Gilbert, here is a link to a 2012 newsletter from agricanada by Curzio that is talking about challenges of growing potatoes in containers. It begins on page 4. newsletter 2012
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Post by nathanp on Jan 4, 2016 21:11:58 GMT -5
Here is an interesting link and picture of a Chaquitaclla, sometimes spelled differently or abbreviated to Taclla. It is the traditional "Andean Foot Plow" that is used for cultivating ground for potatoes and for harvesting them. Essentially, potatoes have been selected for traditionally in their native land by land that has been plowed with these, and by digging with these. This is kind of off topic, I just think it's interesting. long handled Chaquitaclla
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Post by gilbert on Jan 4, 2016 22:31:37 GMT -5
Hello Nathan,
Wow, interesting video! Those are really efficient looking tools. Nice black soil, too. Especially interesting were the guys coming along after them to turn over the chunks of sod. And the fact that they were also using pickaxes of some sort.
Starting to think about why a potato type plant would want to grow higher stolons like I want them to. Most potato plants wouldn't see a need for it. I suppose floodplain potatoes, if there are any such in the wild, would be able to use it to climb above a new layer of silt and leave tubers at a reasonable depth.
Curzio's piece was interesting too. Looks like the main problem with potatoes in containers is the lack of water.
Where did you get the Popa Chonka potato? Did you get it from Curzio's SSE listing? I can't find it anywhere else.
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Post by nathanp on Jan 4, 2016 22:45:03 GMT -5
The long stolon trait tends to be found amount potato varieties that sprawl. They can sometimes get more than 6' wide. Other varieties can be very tall, sometimes 5 or 6 feet.
Most commercial potatoes, because they want to harvest mechanically, find those to be difficult traits to deal with. They want uniformity across their entire fields, and plants that set tubers in exactly one location.
I have some Papa Chonca, and I did get it from Curzio originally. It is basically a perennial, difficult to get rid of in the soil. It is too late to mail any tubers this fall, but if you want some in the spring I may be able to send you some.
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Post by gilbert on Jan 5, 2016 22:16:54 GMT -5
Hello Nathan,
That is a kind offer. I will let you know if I need to take you up on it.
As far as getting stock, it looks like SSE is the only option. As you point out, commercial varieties can't have these traits.
I will probably become an SSE member again. I was a member but let it lapse when Glen Drowns and Will Bonsall broke up with them. It just seemed that the group was becoming rather pointless. But for almost every variety on my list, they (mostly curzio) are the sole source I can find.
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Post by nathanp on Jan 5, 2016 23:57:37 GMT -5
Mariannes Heirloom SeedsI believe this site is going to be offering TPS from a west coast grower at some point before spring, though it is not updated yet. I guess it is one to pay attention to.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 7, 2016 7:54:14 GMT -5
Been thinking a lot about this potato tower discussion. I happened across a potato tower vid on Youtube that is relevant. I was more interested in his ferrocement tank, but the tower video was prominent so I watched it as well. A couple of things jump out at me; They didn't work out as he had hoped. Almost all the potatoes were in the bottom of the tower. The upper areas of the tower were extremely dry despite top watering. That last aspect is a major concern for you gilbert given the video was from the humid UK and you are in arid Front Range Colorado. How are you intending to maintain adequate water across the vertical profile of the tower? This is an aspect I have never considered regarding potato towers (never having seriously considered growing in them) you are dramatically increasing the surface area for evaporative water loss from the soil. System design for adequate and even watering is a major concern IMO.
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Post by gilbert on Jan 7, 2016 21:39:39 GMT -5
Hello Oxbow,
I think that after unsuitable varieties, lack of water is the second biggest problem in potato towers. All that increased surface area is a liability unless you cover it with potato vines.
To solve this problem, I plan to do three things;
Line part of the towers with plastic; use a good water retentive soil and or mulch, instead of straw; and include a water reservoir of some type, either olla or wicking bed, in each tower. I will also increase the tower diameter compared to what most people use.
That was a fairly depressing video as far as yields. I wonder if the temperature just got too high inside the upper tires.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 8, 2016 10:10:21 GMT -5
OK, this thread has gone from a head shaker to me to inspiring an interesting idea. Sweet potato towers. Or at least container sweets. It seems like several negatives of tower growing for potatoes are possible net positives for sweets in this climate. Hot, dry conditions at the soil surface are something I am given to understand that sweet potatoes like very much. It is worth an experiment.
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