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Post by gilbert on Feb 5, 2016 16:52:53 GMT -5
Hello Keen,
Was it some sort of biodynamics, by any chance?
I agree that microorganisms might be very important. Both free living microorganisms, mycorrhizae fungi, and endophite organisms play important roles in things. We are just starting to learn about this. Eventually, we might be able to culture whole guilds of support tailored to each plant we grow. Exciting stuff!
Paul Stamets has done some work in this area. Some of his work is fascinating, but there is a good bit of weird stuff in there too.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 5, 2016 18:17:01 GMT -5
Hello Keen, Was it some sort of biodynamics, by any chance? I agree that microorganisms might be very important. Both free living microorganisms, mycorrhizae fungi, and endophite organisms play important roles in things. We are just starting to learn about this. Eventually, we might be able to culture whole guilds of support tailored to each plant we grow. Exciting stuff! Paul Stamets has done some work in this area. Some of his work is fascinating, but there is a good bit of weird stuff in there too. Yeah, apparently so. I'm watching on dvd again right now. very good documentary. Here is a 1 min overview. Maybe you can find it online. topdocumentaryfilms.com/how-to-save-the-world/Peter Proctor is known as the father of the modern biodynamic farming movement in New Zealand.
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Post by gilbert on Feb 5, 2016 21:32:08 GMT -5
Hello Keen,
I'm interested in Biodynamics, but I've never studied it much.
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Post by gilbert on Feb 5, 2016 21:35:44 GMT -5
On permies I found this great post from Joseph, which I cut and pasted the following from.
So, potatoes have 374 calories per pound. The two pound yield mentioned above for potatoes was in India, with a longer season and more heat. So in the Great Basin, potatoes should be only capable of producing 2/3 pounds per foot. I'm thinking Denver is more like Great Basin then India.
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Post by gilbert on Feb 6, 2016 22:22:29 GMT -5
It looks like the average yield per square foot in the USA is 2 pounds of potatoes.
There are two different ways to to approach the potato tower problem; layers of potatoes in the tower from the start, and one layer of potatoes being hilled up as they grow.
The advantage of the layers method is that the whole area of the tower is covered by leaves right much faster then in the hilling method, and that you don't have to try to get potatoes to form all the way up the stem. The disadvantage is that more seed needs to be stored and planted, or more seedlings started, and that it would be harder to make the sides of the bin solid and water retentive.
Both my structure experiments and my breeding project will take both routes.
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Post by gilbert on Feb 6, 2016 22:32:14 GMT -5
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Post by gilbert on Mar 13, 2016 21:39:28 GMT -5
Still running over ideas for this. Sweet potatoes have the handy trait that their tubers just keep getting bigger the longer the plants live.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Mar 13, 2016 23:39:19 GMT -5
Still running over ideas for this. Sweet potatoes have the handy trait that their tubers just keep getting bigger the longer the plants live. I'm certainly no expert, but i would think sweet potatoes would be better suited for this than regular potatoes. My understanding is that sweet potatoes are more of a vine, and vines are easy to bury and root. Perhaps what you need are potatoes that have more wild traits like S. chocoenese which are reported to have their tubers further away and deeper than cultivated potatoes. Have you thought about other root crops like Oca or Yacon?
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Post by gilbert on Mar 14, 2016 19:12:15 GMT -5
Hi Keen,
Everyone has told me that sweet potatoes can't be hilled. But then again, seemingly the problem with them is that they root into the ground at every node, creating more tiny tubers, none of which will size up. So which is the true story? Apparently, it will not make much difference to me which way it is, since the node rooting trait will not help me much. I have thought about getting other potato types from GRIN, but I have decided to wait till next year on that.
I'm thought about groundnuts, true yams, Chinese artichoke, and sweet potatoes. I will probably be giving all these species a shot. Unfortunately, Oca, Yacon, Mashu, and the other Andean tubers are too daylight sensitive here.
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Post by gilbert on Mar 14, 2016 19:15:59 GMT -5
Here is a link to a depressing set of photos that show no potatoes along the buried stem. I'm thinking that the multi-layered approach is much better. I'm rethinking Tom's series of buckets; what if instead of stepping backward, the shelves simply were one on top of the other, with the stems thrust forward to grow up in front of the side of the pot above? This would save space, maybe. www.durgan.org/2011/January%202011/26%20January%202011%20How%20a%20Potato%20Plant%20Grows/HTML/
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Post by gilbert on Mar 14, 2016 19:28:08 GMT -5
There is some anecdotal evidence that Carola potatoes develop tubers along the stems.
I think that with stacked buckets and a variety that develops tubers higher if hilled, (in the buckets) we might be on to something.
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Post by gilbert on Mar 14, 2016 23:54:00 GMT -5
More anecdotal evidence of success with Red Lasoda, Chieftains, and Sarpo Miras potato varieties.
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Post by reed on Mar 15, 2016 5:36:31 GMT -5
Sweet potatoes do pretty good in large containers. I'm going to grow some that way this year, mostly because I am out of room in the fenced gardens and rabbits would eat them if left at ground level outside. I'm also going to trellis the vines to try to encourage blooming.
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Post by nathanp on Mar 15, 2016 20:07:29 GMT -5
Pay no attention to Durgan, first. He could hardly have picked worse tubers for his experiment. He has only grown determinate, S. tuberosum Tuberosum Group varieties which have been bred to set tubers at only one height level, all at one time. Those are the exact types to avoid. His experiments prove nothing, other than was is deducible to anyone with a brain, but he interprets his data incorrectly to mean all potatoes are like that. They are not. Of course avoid repeating his mistakes/efforts on all counts.
Other tidbits of advice In general, avoid ALL commercial potatoes in the US. They ALL have been bred to set tubers in one place, at a uniform location, to make it easy to harvest mechanically.
In general, avoid S. tuberosum Tuberosum Group. Unless they have other groups in their background, chances are they do the same thing.
Look for indeterminate potatoes, ones that are long season. In particular, look for S. tuberosum groups Andigenum, Phureja, Stenotonum, and possibly Chilotanum. These all have the traits for long stolons, setting tubers on stolons (not just in one place), and in general, producing tubers throughout the growing season, for the ones that are not day length sensitive.
Phureja, in particular, has poor dormancy, meaning it constantly produces tubers when growing, and tubers resprout if immediately planted. They set tubers in chains along stolons. Andigena has many that do this as well.
Papa Chonca, the one potato I have found that produces tubers clearly off the stem and at multiple height levels, is in the Chilotanum group. It is VERY long season.
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Post by nathanp on Mar 15, 2016 20:14:59 GMT -5
I should add, you can achieve respectable harvest with some commercial potatoes in containers. Just don't bury deeply or expect them to do what they can't do, namely set tubers at different height levels, times, etc. Deep containers are counter productive with these, but you can achieve decent yields, even with short season (determinate) ones.
Don't let that turn you off.
However, the effort of trying to find/breed/locate ones that produce along the stem, or produce high yield in containers by chain setting tubers, or producing off long stolons ... just remember that no one has bred for that yet. It is not impossible, the traits are there, they just need someone willing to take time to do so. It likely will take years unless you hit the lottery with one.
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