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Post by farmermike on May 10, 2018 16:56:04 GMT -5
I love growing corn, but when grown during our dry summer it must be irrigated through its entire life cycle (except the final ripening and dry-down). In the spring of 2016 I had a clump of corn volunteer from a sweet corn ear that apparently got missed the previous summer, and buried whole in the fall. I assume it sprouted around late-Feb/early-March while the soil was wet from winter rainfall, but was also sufficiently warm. Here is a photo from April 25th 2016. At least 5 separate plants are about to shed pollen, and you can see a few silks at the bottom of the clump too. Here is the one cob it produced on May 30th, without receiving any irrigation. I ate it right after the photo. Well, this gave me the idea that I can grow a really short season corn without irrigation if I just get it to sprout really early while the soil is moist. Ideally, the crop would continue to get some rain between sprouting and flowering. Once it flowers, maybe it could just get by on the remaining soil moisture. This strategy may not work in a drought year, but it might in a year of normal rainfall. Normal here is ~17" (430mm) all in the cool season (Nov-April).
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Post by farmermike on May 10, 2018 17:30:43 GMT -5
So...on March 6th 2018 I direct seeded a little experimental patch of Gaspe Flint and Tohono O'odham 60-day Flour. The first sprouts came up in about 2 weeks. We had our last frost of the season around March 15th while the seeds were still in the ground. But it was only down to 30F, so I doubt it would have damaged them much if they had been already up. As walt has mentioned, Gaspe flowers a lot earlier thatn TO 60 during cool weather! The Gaspe showed its first sign of flowering on April 24th. Here is the whole patch on April 27th. TO 60 in the front. The Gaspe is showing some odd flowering traits. I don't know if this is normal, or just because of the cool wet weather (and relatively short days) it has experienced. I assume in its native region it flowers during the longest days of the year. As of today (May 10th) the Tohono O'odham has showed no sign of flowering.
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Post by steev on May 10, 2018 19:56:26 GMT -5
Same for me: irrigate corn all season; I'm not yet at all confident about no frost before June, but it's looking more likely, given several years' records showing less cold, so I tilled a patch last week and will till another this week.
I think my eventual plan is to advance my planting by cloching the seed against the April/May potential frosts, which I think are mostly just cold air-flows from the Coast Range, rather than still conditions with falling temps.
I also think my plan to under-plant corn with mat or tepary beans will conserve water, as well as increase the per-foot productivity.
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Post by shmack1 on May 11, 2018 6:33:42 GMT -5
How did the native people of the area grow their corn? And are those landraces still around? Soil type makes a massive difference, our basalt cracking blacksoil, if the profile is fully saturated will see corn through to maturity , with little to know rain. Yield might not be great but it would give you enough
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Post by steev on May 11, 2018 10:31:37 GMT -5
I don't think the indigenous tribes of Cali grew corn, being largely hunter-gatherers who relied much on acorns.
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Post by walt on May 11, 2018 12:19:16 GMT -5
Gaspe Flint corn from different sources have behaved differently for me. All were extremely early, mostly maturing in about 60 days, depending on the weather. Some only grew about a foot tall. 30 cm. Those had almost no space between the leaves. No stem to speak of. Stem, stalk, whatever. Others grew 3 ft, 1m. Seeds looked the same, ears looked the same. In some strains, the picture you show is common type, though not a majority of plants. I grew these Gaspe strains side by side because I suspected, and still believe, that most Gaspe Flint strains are badly inbred. But it is still pretty good where nothing else will grow. Provided local conditions are much like its native Quebec, which mine aren't. And I think your conditions aren't much like Quebec either. OK, it still does OK for me.
While in Niger, I grew Country Gentleman and Golden Bantam. Both did well in the hot season, with its longer days. Both started tasseling, with silks in the tassels, if grown during the cold season. Much like your picture. Now while the hot season lived up to its name, the cold season was only cool. Hot season day length was 13 hr, max. Cold season day length was 11 hr, minimum. So seeing your picture, I think it is a response to day length and/or temperature.
Did you get any crosses between Gaspe Flint and O'odham 60 day? I have some F2 seeds I'll be planting next week. I expect to have F4 seeds, and lots of it, by fall. I could send some. I also think I have some O'odham x sweet F1, and should have F2 by fall. You might like to try some of these. Good luck on this project. Corn is very adaptable, as many here can tell you. You can make it work.
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Post by nkline on May 16, 2018 8:19:18 GMT -5
So...on March 6th 2018 I direct seeded a little experimental patch of Gaspe Flint and Tohono O'odham 60-day Flour. The first sprouts came up in about 2 weeks. We had our last frost of the season around March 15th while the seeds were still in the ground. But it was only down to 30F, so I doubt it would have damaged them much if they had been already up. As walt has mentioned, Gaspe flowers a lot earlier thatn TO 60 during cool weather! The Gaspe showed its first sign of flowering on April 24th. Here is the whole patch on April 27th. TO 60 in the front. The Gaspe is showing some odd flowering traits. I don't know if this is normal, or just because of the cool wet weather (and relatively short days) it has experienced. As long as the growing point of the corn is below the ground you can handle some frost, the growing point will still be underground for a while even when the plant has emerged. I wouldn't worry about the ear tassel, just a plant hormone issue, very common to see it on tillers. I would keep pushing your plant date. 17 inches in season should be enough to grow corn fairly well, space it out a little bit and make sure it is well fertilized.
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Post by farmermike on May 26, 2018 12:46:39 GMT -5
I grew these Gaspe strains side by side because I suspected, and still believe, that most Gaspe Flint strains are badly inbred. But it is still pretty good where nothing else will grow. Provided local conditions are much like its native Quebec, which mine aren't. And I think your conditions aren't much like Quebec either. OK, it still does OK for me. Did you get any crosses between Gaspe Flint and O'odham 60 day? I have some F2 seeds I'll be planting next week. I expect to have F4 seeds, and lots of it, by fall. I could send some. I also think I have some O'odham x sweet F1, and should have F2 by fall. You might like to try some of these. Good luck on this project. Corn is very adaptable, as many here can tell you. You can make it work. Interestingly, our March-May in CA, is somewhat similar (at least temperature-wise) to June-Aug in Gaspe, Quebec! Of course, my rain may be less consistent, and days are shorter. I don't think I'll get much (if any) crossing between the 2. The Gaspe is just about done flowering, and the O'odham is just about to start. If I do get some overlap, I believe the yellow flint would show up in the flour, but not vice-versa. Is that correct? This is on May 25th. Still a few days before it releases pollen -- though we have a little heat wave coming, so it may happen sooner. No silks showing on the O'odham yet. I love the striking difference in growth habit between the Gaspe (front) and O'odham (back). The Gaspe seems to grow as few leaves as possible and prioritize quick flowering, while the O'Odham has produced lots of biomass -- lots of long leaves and luxuriant growth. I can make some guesses about the probable strategies of these 2 varieties for tolerating drought in my climate. The Gaspe has just avoided it by completing its life cycle while the soil is still moist. The O'odham presumably has an extensive root system that can tap into deep soil moisture. I believe it is adapted to growing during the monsoon rains in the Sonoran Desert, which come and go quickly, and annual plants must have very efficient root systems to capitalize on residual moisture after the soil surface is quickly baked dry. I had expected that the flint would germinate a lot better than the flour in the cold wet soil of early March, but both varieties seemed to germinate exactly the same. I estimate about 50-70% germ rate. I didn't do any thinning. walt, yes, I would definitely be interested in any of those crosses you mentioned!
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Post by grano on May 26, 2018 14:29:43 GMT -5
Your germination experience overturns the general rule of not planting till soil temp is at least 65°.
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Post by walt on May 27, 2018 16:53:43 GMT -5
Farmermike. I'll send seeds as soon as I have fresh seeds. If you see me post about how its doing, you might remind me to send some. Memory isn't like it used to be. O'odham, I've read, I think in one of Gary Nabhan's books, can make a crop with 2 rains. I think those 2 rains would have to be spaced just right. I have gotten away with planting Gaspe in colder soil. But it seemed stunted somewhat. You don't want to stunt corn that is already such a small plant. I got the two varieties to bloom together by starting a seed of each every day for a month or more. Naturally, the bloom times overlapped and the cross was made in both directions every time a tassel of one and silks of the other were ready at the same time. This year I want to add Alberta Clipper from oikostreecrops.com to the population.
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Post by starbuckwhy on Jul 9, 2018 14:55:59 GMT -5
native American farmers, in general, used irrigation to grow their corn. they wear actually very advanced farmers compared to a lot of what we are used to imagining from early European accounts.
tiosente, the thing that corn was probably bred from, grew mostly along rivers and creeks.
a guy in my hometown (near concord ca in the diablo valley) actually grew a bunch of sweet corn along the side one of the creek one year, the rats wiped it out the next year i saw ihm try it... but if something as weak as sweetcorn can grow from a HEAVILY polluted creek, i'm sure something as tuff as a native american popcorn could grow that way.
there is an interesting account of a northamerican native city that collapsed because one of their irrigation/engineering projects went wrong, i will try to find the link to the research that talked about it. the city was not in california, but it is a good example of how sophisticated their irrigation systems actually go, even in North America, let alone the insane degree of infostructure building and straight up terraforming that they did in South America. it's interesting stuff.
i have managed to produce a couple small patches with a combination of several dry farming techniques.
i hear people wax fatalistic about corn needing lots of water and nitrogen, but i have found flint corn way easier to grow than tomatoes, and nobody ever wories about how much water and N they need...
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Post by RpR on Jul 9, 2018 15:25:33 GMT -5
The corn types Southwest Indians used could be , to this day, planted deep. Twice the depth of 4 inches that current modern corns can tolerate, depending on soil. They also, some, planted in a a trench in a waffle pattern where they would pour water into the pattern in the morning and it would water itself all day especially as it was planted deeper.
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