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Post by mskrieger on Jun 22, 2015 16:59:03 GMT -5
How're your trees treating you all? I'm starting this thread to share my (over?) excitement at my first fruit crop of the year: sour cherries. Despite a nasty case of brown rot and alternaria, aided and abetted by a healthy cherry fly fornication fest, I seem to be getting a decent crop. 9lbs and counting off of two trees. Theoretically I could be getting 40-60lbs, but with the fungus taking 60-70% of the crop this year and the critters another 10%, that won't be happening. Anything over 10lbs is bonus, I'm happy. Nothing like cherry pie fresh off your own trees.
So now, everybody else: how's the season treating you?
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 22, 2015 16:47:08 GMT -5
Chris: Really interesting comment about the pH and boron. I'll pay attention to that in the future. My garden soil's pH varies from year to year--lowest was about 6.3, highest 6.9--and the boron stays around 1ppm. I'd like it to be 2 or 3ppm. Sulfur is around 10-12ppm.
That point about phosphorous is good to know. And yeah, I agree with you that mycorrhiza, like a lot of microorganisms, tend to appear and grow when conditions are right. Their spores and whatnot are always around. I think of it like sour dough starters. If you want one that's sour with a lot of lactic acid character, you keep it cold and thick; if you want it yeasty and not a lot of acidity from bacteria, you keep it warmer and looser. So what I want to know about beneficial mycorrhiza is: what conditions make them happy? In the garden, compost? In the orchard, ramial woodchips? These are the mysteries....
Those bush cherries sound exciting! And I was thinking of getting Carmine Jewel, from Fedco. Do you happen to know what rootstock you have it on? I'm starting a thread in the orchard section for folks to report back on their yields. Post there about the bush cherries when you get 'em. I'm especially curious as to how they compare to other cherries, size-wise. As for your dwarf pie cherry--losing its leaves prematurely probably means it's got leaf spot. (Just like it sounds.) It doesn't kill the trees outright, but it weakens them and reduces the following year's yield. The one time I saw it on my trees, it was a hellish year for fungal tree afflictions generally and I broke down and sprayed with a nasty synthetic fungicide the following March. Cleaned everything right up. And probably did a number on the beneficial fungi, too. Wouldn't do that again, but it did work.
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 17, 2015 9:40:04 GMT -5
and whoa, just saw you mentioned bush cherries. Do you mean those dwarf kinds of cherries crossed with Siberian genetic stock or whatever that produce tart cherries on low bushes? Tell me about this. Especially their disease resistance. (I'm a cherry fanatic. Just made my first sour cherry pound cake of the year. This weekend I am looking forward to cherry pie, and cherry borscht, and...mmm...yum...)
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 17, 2015 9:30:24 GMT -5
Chris: Let's talk more about remineralization. My (mis)education definitely pushed me toward a reductionist view of things, and so I lean toward the view that if the mineral isn't there in enough quantity, no amount of soil biology is going to make it available to my crops and so to my family. You see this in livestock all the time, and so farmers supplement their animals with selenium or copper or whatever is lacking in their location. I'd rather supplement my soil (it makes the veggies taste better!)
I haven't heard of Haney's soil testing before, but looking through that presentation makes me think he's got good ideas. Why do you like him in particular? I get my soil tested by a lab in Ohio that lists all the micro and macronutrients I'm interested in. I do my own analysis of the results. In my experience, our area gets leached by rain several times a year. So soluble elements such as sulfur and boron move through the topsoil quickly (sulfur as sulfates connected to stuff like calcium etc.) My particular area lacks copper too, I'm not sure why.
It's possible that having a fantastic, untilled soil biology would trap and keep more of the limited nutrients in the top soil (that's what permaculturists and no-till enthusiasts always say is true.) I'm experimenting with that in my orchard, and would love to actually do some controlled experiments to contrast nutrient retention in till v. no till in our area, but I don't have a lot of trees--right now it's two tart cherries and two peaches. Wanna help?
Steev: Yes, really. From McGill. All my classmates work in the tar sands now and have loads of fun with seismographs, thumpers and really disgustingly high salaries while they cheerfully ignore the damage their vocation does to the biosphere by telling themselves 'but we NEED the oil'. (I was a part of the energy industry for a while, too, I understand. I love coal. And I hate it. But that's a whole 'nother discussion.) I turned to gardening because it seems necessary and beneficial. I have this piece of land; why not do something productive with it? And I can grow ANYTHING I want, with a little ingenuity. Just like cooking, the mastery of which means I can have almost anything I want for dinner, I just gotta get the ingredients and make it.
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 16, 2015 10:32:16 GMT -5
Hi Chris, Nice to hear from another Nutmegger! I live in Norwalk, just an hour south of you along the I-95 corridor. Similar climate, just moderated by Long Island Sound. I'm a huge soil nerd, tho' untrained (does a BS in Geophysics count? No, it really doesn't and would love to chat with you about soil science and remineralization of garden soils in our corner of the biosphere. I'm also interested in season extension, particularly with brassicas...have you done any work with broccoli rabe? Kim
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 10, 2015 8:26:41 GMT -5
Hm. Thanks!
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 9, 2015 11:19:45 GMT -5
Thanks, Steev! Do you mix up the lime-sulfur yourself, or buy it premixed? And do pour it all in the same sprayer?
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 8, 2015 10:24:30 GMT -5
I like to combine lime-sulfur with horticultural dormant-oil for winter spraying. OK. Why do you like it (lime-sulfur) versus another type of mineral fungicide? Why do you spray it in the winter? Why with dormant oil? Sorry for all the questions, the answers to the 'whys' help me calibrate to the situation at my place. Plus I value your experience and outlook.
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 7, 2015 14:49:08 GMT -5
The thing about brown rot is that it's almost impossible to clean every bit of infected plant material--if you've ever seen a bad infection you'll understand why: the infected fruit mummifies and then falls into the duff. Finding every tiny brown mummy could drive you insane.
I am considering the sulfur from multiple angles, both as an anti-fungal agent and to address a nutrient deficiency. Until the Clean Air Act kicked in during the late 1990s, my area was continuously bathed in sulfurous acid rain, and my stone fruit has no problems. I'm a big fan of the Clean Air Act--don't get me wrong!--and it may be pure coincidence that my trees have problems now. But it 's also true that my soil is low in sulfur, and I use it in my garden regularly. I till my garden. I don't till my orchard. And I was leery of the effect spraying sulfur on my trees would have on the beneficial fungi. But now I'm leaning towards using mineral fungicides as both anti-fungal (on the trees) and fertilizer (when the rain washes it off the trees into the duff.)
So, anybody been here before me? Advice?
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 7, 2015 9:01:45 GMT -5
Brown rot. Really bad. Even in dry springs, now. I'm pretty sure it's due to a sulfur deficit. Would love to hear other people's experiences, especially if they orchard in a wet climate.
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 6, 2015 18:43:53 GMT -5
Orcharding folks, have you ever used Bordeaux mixture? Lime sulfur? Or any of the copper- or sulfur-based fungicides? Did they work for you? Like em? Any words of advice? My orchard is generally run holistically but my stone fruit have serious fungal challenges and I'm considering what to do.
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Post by mskrieger on May 26, 2015 9:59:42 GMT -5
I'm curious why you're concerned about the sand--it doesn't hold nutrients or water as well as clay, but it has advantages. Easy to work, and certain vegetables really like it (cauliflower and asparagus, for example.)
That said, clay does help with water and nutrient retention. Most people I know who've added clay put it into the compost pile. (Humus needs clay to form.) But if you're more of a no-till, compost-in-place kinda gardener, just sprinkling clay in with the organic material you add would be fine, the worms and fungi and microorganisms would help you work it in.
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Post by mskrieger on May 21, 2015 13:39:39 GMT -5
Whoa whoa whoa. HOSTAS? You all ferment HOSTAS? You mean the super annoying ground cover plants infesting areas of my yard? They are edible?!?!?!?! Do you cover in brine, or just salt and pound? And how many days? What temperature? This could be epic. Yes - yes. I use both methods for Hosta. It ferments strongly and with a old-cheese like odour. First a week or two at room temperature, then cooler (in my larder). Salt and serial squeezes give a very strong ferment. I like it, but for some it is overwhelming. With the acid of a brine, it ferments less, and produce a milder ferment. Milder, but still a divider of tastes. If you like it, you will really like it :-) Thanks for the detail. I'm gonna try this. As well as the other methods of cooking hostas. Apparently I have an enormous growth of perennial greens in my yard that I didn't know about. Like waking up and finding out someone stocked my larder.
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Post by mskrieger on May 14, 2015 9:10:34 GMT -5
Whoa whoa whoa. HOSTAS? You all ferment HOSTAS? You mean the super annoying ground cover plants infesting areas of my yard? They are edible?!?!?!?!
Do you cover in brine, or just salt and pound? And how many days? What temperature? This could be epic.
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Post by mskrieger on May 11, 2015 11:09:51 GMT -5
reed, have you considered a cistern or tank filled with rainwater from the roof? Seems like that could supplement your pond quite nicely. People tell me those tanks aren't really all that expensive (you could dig your own and line it with rock and cement if you're into that kind of thing, which would lower the cost even more. And you'd be really, really fit to boot.)
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