Terra Preta

[stevil]

Re-Terra Preta: I read this discussion for the first time yesterday. I then opened my mailbox and there was an email waiting for me from a friend who is on a study tour to Brazil. Couldn't believe when I read the following:

" I visited some ancient terra preta, was impressed by the agroforests growing there, but dismayed to see the modern day farmers are not continuing to produce the charcoal which constitutes a large fraction of these man made soils. They are using typical slash piles to burn off waste material reducing everything to ash...and buying chemical fertilizers"

[Alan]

Unfortunately this doesn't suprise me. Since no one really knows exactly how Terra Preta was made I'm sure the decendents of these wonderfully advanced civilizations have lost this art as well. Another attrocity via the "green/gene" revolution.

[bunkie]

i find this all very interesting. i've read all the posts here, and am slowly going through the links provided. my first thought when discussing the 'fines' was the way many of the wheat/grain farmers rejuvenate their fields here in eastern washington. they burn the stubble in the fall and disc in the residue. would this not act as the placing of biochar 'fines' in the soils, with winter wet weather allowing the fines to collect nutrients to release to the plantings in the spring, tho on a less 'chunkier' basis? the one problem with the burning of the stubble is the smoke particles in the air that really affect alot of people.

i really like your idea alan of placing chunks in the worm bins to collect the nutrients so that will act like a slow release fertilizer. brilliant!

[utopiate]

Somebody might look into "carbonizing fungi". I havn't really read much about them, but the idea suggests a way to possibly and sensibly integrate charcoal making (or something similar) with the composting process.

[grunt]

On Feb 2, Ceara posted this link video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8993313723654914866 to a BBC show on Cultural Anthropology. As she indicated, "terapreta" is not mentioned until 30 minutes into the documentary. What she didn't mention, and what I am surprised no one has commented on, is the kicker that shows up at the 45 minute mark, that terapreta seems to be self-replicating. They mine it and sell it off, and it reproduces itself. What I also found amazing was the rate of improvement using terapreta+NPK versus NPK alone = 885% (this is at the 42 minute mark).
If you haven't watched this one yet, you should do so. The first 30 minutes, when rethought after seeing the last 6 minutes, raises a whole bunch of questions for me. I'd really like to see a detailed mapping of the incidence of terapreta, overlaid on the area they fly over in the video. If this stuff is self replicating, all of those areas should be solid terapreta, barring some sort of physical barrier.
The corollary to this is, if it's self replicating but doesn't spread sideways on its own, is the charcoal the catalyst that is required for it to spread, and can you "inoculate" other areas of your soil with it once it is established, and.........
Way too many questions. Anybody out there got any answers?

[bunkie]

intriging val. we're on dialup and it would take us a week to download 45 minutes. i wonder if there is a transcript somewhere? what is the title?

[grunt]

Bunkie, and anyone else on dialup out there: Two possible solutions (out of many). Get a download manager that will take care of the download for you, and let it go to work when you go to bed (Getright would be my first choice = free). It would definitely take a while (140+ Mb) but it would eventually get there (I do remember what dialup was like ... I started my internet experience on a cell-phone hookup = downloads were blazing if you got over about 400 bytes a minute). The other alternative is to send me your snailmail address (if we don't already have it) and I'll burn it to a CD for you. If we go the CD route, I'll throw in a few programs I consider to be extremely useful, as there will be lots of room left on the CD.
Cheers
Dan

[grunt]

Just realized I didn't answer your question, It's a BBC Horizon video "Archaeology, Cultural Anthropology, “The Secret of El Dorado”. There's a chance your local library might download it for you to watch, if they are computer equipped. link is video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8993313723654914866
Dan

[ceara]

Here is a distribution map.

www.gerhardbechtold.com/TP/BrazilTP3.php

Oh yes I noticed the part where they are "farming" the terra preta and the farmer says he will allow it to be taken from an area for a while and then they let it rest and it seems to regenerate so they never run out.

Must be some sort of bacteria or something in the soil, and supposedly scientists are testing it.

Also in the video there is a test plot where they compare food output between

- no fertilizer or charcoal
- just chemical fertilizer
- charcoal added and fertilizer combo

There is a substantial harvest increase in the charcoal + fertilizer section of the test plots.

With streaming videos like Google, you can wait until it starts to play the video and then press Pause. The video will continue to load.

[grunt]

ceara: Thank you for the link. Some good information (or at least reasons to get the grey matter churning again to try and digest what is said and suggested).

[paquebot]

There's one ingredient which is normally not mentioned when discussing terra preta. You will note that an analysis has it sounding like a large garbage dump since that is essentially what it is. The missing ingredient is what is missing throughout that part of the world, human burials. Much of that charcoal would have been the bi-product of cremations and that's the one thing that we are unwilling to duplicate in our present society.

Martin

[Alan]

Haven't watch the documentary yet, but will in time.

When I first started blogging and speaking here about Terra Pretta it was most certainly the self-replicating trait that got my attention along with the ability to produce ample food for a huge civilation (El-Dorado anyone?)

My theory on the self-replication is a combination of microorganisms, the breakdown of pottery and charcoal and earthworms.

In the Amazon anything that hits the ground is gone in hours due to humidity, therefor the soil is thin as it never has a chance to absorb the nutrients.

In tera pretta, anything that touches it is broken down and absorbed into it. Also as it is turned the deeper and anearobic parts of the tera pretta that are oxygen deprived and similar to a peat bog begin to decompose into nutrients and crumble spreading outword. Insects, micro-organisms, and earthworms are constantly moving into and out of the tera pretta and surfacing to bring down and digest new organic matter in the outside fringes and top of the pit which adds new organic matter.

In regards to Paquebots theory about cremation, there have been some burials found in the tera pretta but not high concentrations. Most of the original deposits of charcoal also include pottery shards indicating a culture that focused on creating pottery and used damp, slow burning wood and earth strewn over top of them to dampen the fire in order to fire the pots, sometimes pots busted and fires were built on top of previous burn sites adding up over time and creating deep beds of tera pretta.

Some of the lighter Tera Pretta deposits probably weren't of agricultural importance and instead were probably refuse piles that decomposed over time making nice soil.

Just my theories of course.

Keep the interest in this alive.

[mike]

Question about the benefits of creating a Terra Preta type condition in ones garden... If I understand this correctly one of the main properties of terra preta is biochar, and biochar is simply slow burned, oxygen deprived charcoal that can enhance the nutrient holding capacity of the soil through slow release. Could I not use the wood ash that I have every spring from burn piles (from tree limbs mostly) to achieve the same results. The ash does contain a lot of charcoal, the nutrients would be leached out faster then if using a better formed biochar but if used every year with a mixture of compost would it not have the same effect? From what I understand one of the most important attributes of biochar is that is raises the soils PH through the addition of potassium, phosphorus and magnesium, and regular wood ash should temporarily have the same results. Or perhaps I would be missing out on the whole soil microorganism part of the equation. I suppose my question will be answered over time as I will be carefully trying this in my garden going forward.

[raymondo]

I started adding charcoal from winter fires last year. I sift out the ash and use the remaining charcoal. I do use some of the ash as I would lime, only more sparingly. I did only a small area last year. This year I hope to do much more but I will 'activate' the charcoal first this time. An Australian academic who is writing a book on the subject of biochar recommends just peeing on it and letting the urine soak in as an easy home method of activating it.

[bluelacedredhead]

Oh lookie, a winter project for males with aim to their lives..Peeing on a pile of charcoal to activate it. ROFLMAO