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Post by stevil on Nov 24, 2008 16:57:35 GMT -5
I planted all my bulbils this year to increase my planting, so I don't have anymore right now. I didn't keep any seeds from that variety, but I suspect it's the same one Frank gave to Michel anyway. I'll be happy to share what bulbils I end up with next year. My memory is really bad, will you try to help remind me? If you really want some bulbils now, you might ask Søren. He's where I got it from originally, but he's probably already planted his as well. Please add me to your Amish wish list. I'll have my Allium trade list ready soon (and yes, Mr. Michel I'm sure I can supply a number of phenomenal wild Alliums to satisfy your current needs). I visited Søren in the summer, but don't remember seeing an ampeloprasum with bulbils - he had one called Kathy though (maybe that one had bulbils). Actually met Søren early last week as we both attended a Nordic seminar on PGR in Denmark. We also had a short Allium meeting between Nordic NGOs afterwards which was interesting (chaired by Søren).... |
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Post by orflo on Nov 24, 2008 23:53:40 GMT -5
Are you convinced this is oerprei? This one has a different colour and growing habit, compared to mine...It can't be a climatologic difference... ;D In fact, quite a bit of these perennial leeks are circulating in Europe, well, to be correct, at least in France and Germany. I don't think oerprei is babbington's leek, it has probably been selected from the allium polyanthum, which can still be found growing wild in French vineyards. This oerprei forms both bulbils , seeds and can be used as leeks. I do think this is an old variety of 'Perlzwiebel' or 'parellook', as Patrick said. This parellook is the 'onion' that was traditionally used for conservation in vinegar, mixed up with some other herbs. This was highly esteemed , especially in Germany, but this 'true' parelloook has been replaced by small onion varieties nowadays. Someone told me there's still a small German company canning the 'true' Perlzwiebel, but I still have to find that out. As far as I know, the botanical history of leek has not yet been completely discovered, but maybe Stephen will correct me on this one. Most of the other perennial leek I've seen don't set seed, but are only propagated by divisions or bulbils. Maybe these are indeed more related to kurrat or even Taree Irani (coming from Iran off course), and could have been brought into Europe by immigrants. |
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Post by canadamike on Nov 25, 2008 0:57:14 GMT -5
Stop arguing guys please, all you'll end up doing is having me grow more onion stuff !!   Anyway. Frank, this gem of a delicacy is my discovery of the year. Shit, I am all excited just writing about it!! And it is not the gardener that is excited, it is the cook!! Did you notice if that sweetness came after some cold or is it like that in summer? I did not eat them then of course, they were much too small... Bêêêêê! |
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Post by PatrickW on Nov 25, 2008 7:12:08 GMT -5
Here are pictures of what I thought was Babbington's Leek I grew this summer: www.patnsteph.net/weblog/?p=342What came from Lieven, was actually called Oerprei (Lieven is Belgian), Søren called what he gave me Babbington's Leek. From both Søren and Lieven I got bulbs instead of bulbils or seeds. Lieven's Oerprei bulbs tended to form 4-5 'cloves', and Søren's 2. They were quite different plants, but I decided to only keep growing Søren's mostly because propagation was easier with the bulbils. I didn't spend a lot of time comparing the taste, so perhaps I made a mistake in this way. My Oerprei looks similar to Stevil's, in my opinion. My Babbington's Leek looks different from his however, mostly in that it has two cloves, instead of the single bulbs Stevil has. Stevil, I assume your Babbington's Leek formed the bulbils underground on the bottom of the plant? This is what mine did. Anyway, I'll be happy to set aside some Amish Onion and/or Babbington's Leek for those who asked. In fact I'm happy more people are growing the Amish Onion, as it hasn't always been easy to find people interested in it, although some more people have expressed interest in the last year or two. Please help me remember. Stevil: I traded some garlic bulbils with Åke Truedsson this year, as well as got some tomatoes from him. I was under the impression he was more into tomatoes than alliums. I also traded garlic with a Swedish guy named Matti Turpeinen, who seemed to be where Åke got most of his garlic. He has a lot of interesting garlic from the former USSR. |
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Post by ottawagardener on Nov 25, 2008 9:21:33 GMT -5
This thread is so exciting to me that yesterday while reading a post, I burnt my onions... ironically. I couldn't bring myself to tell my husband what I was doing that was keeping my attention away from the onions...
Perennial onions have got to be one of my favourite subjects, amoung many favourite perennial subjects.
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Post by canadamike on Nov 25, 2008 10:45:35 GMT -5
I have beautiful one year old leeks that will end up in your place next spring OG. I rarely grow interesting stuff just for myself, like almost everybody here... I am going to the farm right now to write your name on them....  |
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Post by bunkie on Nov 25, 2008 10:52:32 GMT -5
i am also very fascinated with this thread and all the info. from stevil's photos, it looks to me like the Babington's a larger sized bulb than Sand Leek and Oerprei. i would very much like to try th Babington. right now i only have Egyptian Onions.
is the Amish Onion the same as the Babington, and what are their tastes as compared to michel's description of the Oerprei?
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Post by PatrickW on Nov 25, 2008 12:32:08 GMT -5
The Amish Onion is similar to the Egyptian onion (that I discovered recently comes from Iran), only it's different. In my garden at least the Amish onion grows better, the greens are a little narrower and the taste is different. In my opinion, the taste is better, but mostly it's just different.
If you like to stuff the Egyptian onion greens with cheese or something similar, this won't work with the Amish onion, they are too small.
As far as the difference in taste between Oerprei and Babbington's leek, this is like when people ask me what the difference in taste is between my garlics.
I've grown more than 50 different garlics for the last several years (last year almost 100), and I can tell you they are all different and special, but more than anything else they taste like garlic. The chances are, if you grow the same garlic in your garden it will taste different anyway. I have some favorite garlics, and I could tell you which ones those are, but even this changes from one year to the next.
For me at least it's the same between the different perennial leeks, they are all different and special but I would have a hard time explaining exactly what the differences are and even if I could it would probably be different in your garden anyway. I've also only been growing them a couple of years now, so I haven't even really picked any personal favorites yet except I've liked nearly everything I've grown so far.
I hope someone else has some better suggestions but if it's just me, I suggest just trying a few different ones -- whatever people will send you or you can otherwise get your hands on, then see what you like or what grows best.
There are really an amazing number of Alliums around, some wilder or more weedy in nature, others domesticated. Most of them are perennials. All ranges in tastes going from onion, chive, garlic, leek, and everything in between. In Dutch there's one word that describes all these different Alliums, 'lookjes'. Many of them are a bit boring, but some are very special and if you are into the differences between all these kinds of plants it can be a lot of fun to try them. The best thing really is to find people who collect them, and ask them to send you what they have. The Seed Savers Exchange often has some interesting Alliums on offer.
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Post by stevil on Nov 25, 2008 14:19:15 GMT -5
Are you convinced this is oerprei? This one has a different colour and growing habit, compared to mine...It can't be a climatologic difference... ;D Well, the picture was taken at Lieven's place and I wrote down at the time that he called it Oerprei and I thought he had said he got it from you. I think we'll have to wake Lieven up and ask.... |
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Post by orflo on Nov 25, 2008 14:21:27 GMT -5
I don't really remember sending some oerprei to Lieven, but I suspect I did do so, otherwise he wouldn't have named it like that, I probably sent him small bulbils.
so, Michel, Lievens and yours are probably the same, I'm glad it has such a success, as far as I know, only 4 people were growing this strain over here. I did send some more seeds to the US , so it circulates at some places over there (I hope).
By the way, I have some small bulbs of a very good shallot strain :Klimt, comes from a Czech market, if anyone is interested (only small ones will be sent to the US), it's very productive and certainly longkeeping (up to June over here).
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Post by orflo on Nov 25, 2008 14:24:09 GMT -5
Well, that's posting at the same time ;D ;D ;D
so it comes from me... strange that it looks so different, it's just like 'bleu de solaize' leek
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Post by canadamike on Nov 25, 2008 14:27:43 GMT -5
Klimt please... |
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Post by canadamike on Nov 25, 2008 14:29:03 GMT -5
Frank, I am gonna work on it. According to plan, it should be offered by a small seed company in Canada by next year....
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Post by stevil on Nov 25, 2008 15:08:57 GMT -5
In fact, quite a bit of these perennial leeks are circulating in Europe, well, to be correct, at least in France and Germany. I don't think oerprei is babbington's leek, it has probably been selected from the allium polyanthum, which can still be found growing wild in French vineyards. This oerprei forms both bulbils , seeds and can be used as leeks. I do think this is an old variety of 'Perlzwiebel' or 'parellook', as Patrick said. This parellook is the 'onion' that was traditionally used for conservation in vinegar, mixed up with some other herbs. This was highly esteemed , especially in Germany, but this 'true' parelloook has been replaced by small onion varieties nowadays. Someone told me there's still a small German company canning the 'true' Perlzwiebel, but I still have to find that out. As far as I know, the botanical history of leek has not yet been completely discovered, but maybe Stephen will correct me on this one. Most of the other perennial leek I've seen don't set seed, but are only propagated by divisions or bulbils. Maybe these are indeed more related to kurrat or even Taree Irani (coming from Iran off course), and could have been brought into Europe by immigrants. My experience is really limited to Babington's Leek. I wasn't really aware of these European variants until a few years ago, but I'm learning.... Has anyone seen the wild ampeloprasum (polyanthum and others) in the wild in Southern Europe and/or in gardens (not my picture)? www.albufera.com/portal/images/floristico/allium_polyanthum.jpgHere's a picture of my Babington's Leek earlier in the year (quite similar?): www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1076An interesting looking paper (anyone have access?): www.actahort.org/books/242/242_18.htmTwo pictures of ampeloprasum from a fantastic wild edible botanical garden in Firenze, Italy (early April): www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1077www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1079I'm pretty sure my plants are "commercial" Babington's Leek in the UK. I originally got this from HDRA (organic, NGO famous for their Heritage Seed Library) many years ago but I lost it eventually in a very cold winter - not surprising as Babington's Leek is a British and Irish native (or relic from earlier cultivation?) that grows in the mildest parts of the country along the coast. It is now relatively easy to get hold of Babington's Leek and currently 10 nurseries list it in the UK. I also see that Chiltern Seeds lists it (bulbils). By the way, it is named after Charles Babington (with one "b"), a Victorian botanist. A curiosity - I have one other of his in my garden, Atriplex babingtonii... |
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Post by grungy on Nov 25, 2008 15:09:45 GMT -5
Mike are you going into the seed business?
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