Any tips on growing rice?

[johno]

Back to rice... it's been a long while since I read it, but Masanobu Fukuoka's book One Straw Revolution (I hope that's the right book...) mentioned growing rice in a non-traditional method. Flooded once, then left dry. His plants were small, but the nutritional content of the harvest rivaled that of those grown the regular way.

[PatrickW]

The entire SSE yearbook is online:

yearbook.seedsavers.org

The interface is not very handy, but all the varieties are there. You can't see the names of the members offering them or order anything, but if you want to know what's there before you become a member, you can see this at least.

One Straw Revolution can also be found online!

www.soilandhealth.org/copyform.aspx?bookcode=010140.fukuoka

In order to download it you have to provide some information in order to comply with Australian copyright law.

[MikeM]

I've been aware of SSE for many years, as well as how they work. I think that they have been absolutely instrumental in bringing seed-saving and plant-biodiveristy issues to a wider-than-otherwise audience. But the fact remains that the expense is pretty high for an African -- even a reasonably well-off African like me ;-) It is not merely a matter of exchange rates, but of relative purchasing power. 'Nuff said -- I probably won't be joining, but will rather use the money (more productively, IMHO) to actually buy-in and exchange actual seeds.

I am also well aware that many people in the planting-things-space are Internet-ignorant. That's just too bad -- their loss. I have certainly used the net to great benefit to acquire many of the heirloom varieties I keep. Meanwhile I have been working on some Internet-based software to facilitate seed exchange that I hope to have in a beta-release-ready state sometime in the new year -- probably around late-Jan or mid-Feb. The idea is to automate the matching-up of people with "wants" and "offers"... (I'm a little leary of talking too much about this and then having some "Life" happen that prevents me actually getting it out. It's happened too many times before.)

What I really need is to start a local seed-savers exchange -- something I've contemplated over a beer or two with an old friend (who introduced me to seed-saving) many times. We both lack the enthusiasm whilst the garden calls ;-) It would also help hugely in salvaging local heirlooms, especially African traditional crops...

Another part of me is not so enthusiastic about a local (South African) seed-exchange because of other pressures.

For one the blatantly machiavellian tactics that the seed multinationals use to limit international seed exchange. This must be fought, tooth and nail. Strictly speaking it is illegal for anybody to import seed into South Africa without a permit, and permits are near-unobtainable except for the largest seed companies (all 3 or 4 of them.) We get away with it because the Post Office is under-resourced to police it. So, in some part, I see the international nature of seed-exchange as part of a fight against the corporatisation of our food supply.

Secondly, in a world of climate change, I think that one of the most important things we can do is get a wide range of germ-plasm available everywhere, so that, whilst some varieties may not be hugely successful today, may provide the genetic springboard for surviving and adapting to suddenly-changed climate norms. As an example, for the past couple of years I have focussed on acquiring more purple-coloured varieties -- especially in the Cabbage Tribe -- since reading that the anthocyanins impart a higher degree of UV-resistance, and, while the Hole In The Ozone Layer might not be getting the press it was a few years ago, its still there, and pretty-much worse than ever and I believe that it has/does affect some of my crops.

(Steps off soapbox... ;-)

What am I looking for? Since we're in the Poaceae forum... grain Sorghum (but I plan to source it locally so that I get a more-locally-adapted variety -- it would feel a bit bizarre to source one of Africa's traditional crops from the US or Europe ;-); 2-row Barley (with the ultimate intention of malting it to brew); older Wheat varieties to try out; maybe some (grain) Rye (a bit dubious in our climate&soil, but I'm always willing to experiment.)

OTOH I'm not really ready for any of them yet until I clear and clean my "top-field" (about 1000 sq.m.)... I'll post my other "wants" in more appropriate fora.

[PapaVic]

Mike, if you're interested in seeds for the OSU Blue tomato, the one with the anthocyanin gene, I'd be happy to mail you some. You can send your address to [e-mail] and I will send them out. Bill

[Alan]

LOL Papa Vic,

sure I can grow rice in Indiana, in the immortal words of Jim Morrison; " I am the lizard king, I can do anything! ". Most likely I will grow the rice in an aquaphonics system just to see how it works out, if it grows and produces well then I will expand the system and possibly create an artificial bog in a kiddie pool or some such device and go much larger in 2010. It's just something else to play with and another step towards self-sustainability, after all, you never know until you try.

On the subject of Seed Savers Exchange, the topic is hotly debated as we all now as far as their effectiveness, motives, and morals. What I will say on my own behalf is that sometimes I think people put too much faith into their system and might even possibly give them a bit more credit now days for what they do then for what they are worth.

Granted, they did spearhead the heirloom seed movement and Kent Whealey had a great idea, and idea that in my opinion has been corrupted over time.

Several key issues come to mind, keeping in mind that these are my opinions and I am not forcing them onto anyone, don't anyone go getting their panties bunched up but I do believe that the firing of Kent was not only wrong but the first sign of trouble ahead, I also believe that placing seeds in the new seed bank was a mistake and part of a larger future seed grab by big ag business. I also believe that there are to few people in charge of too large of a PUBLIC DOMAIN genetic resource and that we will see the consequences of such in the future. It only takes one self righteous idiot to ruin it for us all.

Sure SSE is useful, but probably not nearly as useful as a web-site such as this is or an organization such as the one Dave is putting together for the future will be. It is no longer a daunting task to make connections all around the world and trade exceedingly rare seeds with one another, it also no longer costs an arm and a leg once you know how to play the game and to be completely honest with you I think a lot of people would be highly suprised to know the amount of diversity of seed that has been distributed through this site, including many varieties that are not now, have not ever been, nor will they ever be listed in the SSE Yearbook.

Let me put it this way, I didn't find anything in the SSE yearbook that I could not first find here and I didn't find anything that I could not live without, what I did find was an ever increasing interest by the board of SSE in engaging in tactics which are scaring away long time members and new members and a habit and recent trend by SSE's intentions of flirting with corporate and big ag.


So yeah, I don't agree with everyone here that SSE is all it's cracked up to be, particularly not when possibly more viable systems of agricultural trade exist outside of their microcosom of seed trade and screw ups.


As far as I'm concerned, I'm out of SSE and will forever on devote myself to Hip-Gnosis Seed Development and the network which we have created through this site and our own black market seed trade.

[Alan]

BTW Mike, I agree 100% with everything that you iterated above. We will have to ensure our own genetic diversity and fight the multi-nationals, big things in the realm of control and manipulation of not just agriculture by humanity are underway not only in the USA but all around the globe at the moment.

[Alan]

For those interested in growing rice in the north, I recieved this e-mail yesterday from a fellow by the name of Daniel Boreman, pretty interesting information and some things to follow up on. I just sourced a number of glutinous rice accessions and some other interesting rice genetics via GRIN and Gatersleben.

E-mail as follows:

Hello Alan

I expect you will have a interesting result with rice. Many kinds do
not need the soaked feet, just wetter than corn will work. Much of the
variety base grown and avail in the stores in USA is not cool
tolerant. In fact it looks like the qualities needed for cool
tolerance are not kept in seed banks as they are negative qualities
for southern rice growers. It will take more interest and successes by
northern rice experimenters to "encourage" the collection, storage,
and availability of cool tolerant rices. There are rices in the world
that grow to 3000 meters. I bet no matter where one is on earth at
that elevation, it is at least cool. The qualities these rices have
are very different than those one gets at the store. Unfortunately,
many of the high altitude rices are also low latitude or short day
adapted. I am currently in process moving and books are packed. I have
reference materials. You could check out M. Y. Nuttonson
agroecological monographs incl one on rice for cool climates. Also
check out the Plant Genetic Resources Newsletter no. 125 pp 24-- ...
rice ... Yunnan... You will see by these materials that there always
has been rice that would grow where you are. It is just a needle in
the haystack to find seed sources.

Abt growing all ones own food personally or within a community. Check
out One Circle by David Duhon avail Bountiful Gardens. Gives method
and example of how to decide how much to grow to achieve a complete
diet. That is the example is for Willets California so you would need
to plug in what would grow in your area.

lots more to talk abt.

cheers
Dan

[bunkie]

great info alan. thanks for posting.

i just picked up some bulk wild rice seed at the store yesterday and am going to try and germinate it. as i posted before, it did germinate many years ago when i tried it. i will be using the land/soil method. i have heard that rice can be grown without being in water...his 'in enough water for corn' thought, i have read before also. let me know if you find any of these 'cool' rice varieties. i will check out the info he gave and see if i can find some sources also.

[grungy]

And bunkie, if you do please let me know.

[bunkie]

you got it val! ;D

[raymondo]

I've mentioned this before, I think, but there is an Australian perennial grain called Microlaena stipoides, also known as Weeping Rice Grass or Alpine Rice because the grains are rather rice-like, though narrower. It grows in cold areas of Australia though of course that's a relative statement. Where I live, for example, we rarely get snow although winter temps are consistently below 0°C (32°F) at night. The coldest I've known it to be is -15°C (5°F) but -10°C (14°F) is more common. The ground rarely freezes.
There is only one person working on this as a grain here as far as I know and I believe she is tinkering with genes rather than using traditional breeding techniques. It definitely needs work from a commercial grain point of view. For exapmle, it shatters quite easily and has a weeping habit so doesn't suit machine harvest. If anyone is interested in this grain I'd be happy to send some samples.

Here are some pics for comparison.

Alpine Rice


Annual Rye


Basmati Rice


Wheat

[bunkie]

ray, i'm very interested in the Alpine Rice. i will email you.

i am reading a book called 'The Rebel Farmer' by Sepp Holzer. have you heard of him ray? he is very famous and travels around the world teaching people. he farms at 1500 meters above sea level in Austria at his farm called Krameterhoff, and grows many things that shouldn't be growing at that cold of an area. i am half way through the book and will be getting into his veggie/grain growing here soon. he believes 'nature is simple and perfect'. there is a wheat that he grows that out produces any other on the planet, and a perennial corn. can't wait to get to those chapters.

[raymondo]

The book sounds interesting. I'll look out for it. I got your email. No problem.

[bunkie]

ray, i just received your package of Alpine Rice in the mail yesterday! thanks so much. that's a lot of seed! i will plant probably half to three quarters of it this spring...half started in cells and half seeded in the ground to see what does well. it is rather thinner than wild rice. i'm going to be curious to taste it this fall. will let you know how it does up here.

[Alan]

Howdy Raymondo,


I would be glad to have some of the Alpine Rice for experimental purposes.


I have been reading and enjoying thoroughly "The One Straw Revolution", an eye opener for sure and a great book for a dreamer such as myself.

I will be starting my rice as transplants this year, trialing close to 15 varieties, some standard rice, some glutinous, and some with cold tolerance. A number of friends the world over have been sending me samples and I can't thank them enough for their help and encouragement, I have high hopes in particular for a rice that was sent to me by my corn loving friend Jim Culpepper which should be decently suited for my situation