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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 16, 2009 14:21:37 GMT -5
I am on the lookout Tim! (and any seeds sent will be a donation to research  ) |
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Post by kctomato on Feb 20, 2009 11:57:18 GMT -5
Dr. C.M. Rick divided the species into two complexes (the L.esculentum complex and the L. peruvianum complex) based on their ability to cross with the common tomato Lycopersicon esculentum. The L.esculentum complexL. esculentum Solanum lycopersicumL. esculentum sub specifics --- L.esculentum var. cerasiforme --- L.esculentum var. pyriforme --- L.esculentum var. grandifolium --- L.esculentum var. validium (L. humboldtii and a few other probably fit in the subspecific catagory - just depends on the authority) L. pimpinellifolium Solanum pimpinellifolium readily crossesL. cheesmanii Solanum cheesmaniae readily crosses--- L. cheesmanii f. minor Solanum galapagense readily crossesL. parviflorum Solanum neorickii readily crossesL. chmielewskii Solanum chmielewskii readily crossesL. hirsutum f. typicum Solanum habrochaites does not readily cross ---- L. hirsutum f. glabratum readily crosses Alan could have had a "typicum" and Tim a "galbratum"*L. pennellii Solanum pennellii readily crossesThe L. peruvianum complex (these generally do not directly cross with L esculentum) L. chilense Solanum chilenseL. peruvianum Solanum peruvianumCrossing L chilinese with the cultivated tomato, L. esculentum, is extremely difficult due to several barriers which exist. The stigma of L. chilense will not accept pollen from the cultivated tomato and almost always leads to the abortion of the flower. The reciprocal cross, pollen from L. chilense applied to the stigma of L. esculentum, can result in the formation of fruit but few seeds are viable. However, some of the seeds do contain embryos of sufficient size to facilitate embryo rescue. Crossing L. peruvianum to L. esculentum is rarely sucessful. Attempts frequently result in embryo or flower abortion. As more lines have been evaluated, a few have produced at least one seed. Fortunately, these hybrids are capable of backcrossing to a L. esculentum parent. Hybridization between the tomato cultivars and wild species Lycopersicon peruvianum by means of ovule culture. (Imanishi, S. and Chen, L.)Another method which has been successful at overcoming the incompatibility between the cultivated tomato and the L. peruvianum is the use of L. chilense as a bridge species (L. peruvianum is crossed to L. chilense and that progeny is crossed to L. esculentum). Although this might seem encouraging, most of the time this method fails, but does yield better results than a direct cross. Most crosses between the cultivated tomato and the members of the "peruvianum-complex" fail due to some sort of incompatibility. Other related genera that exhibit potential crossability to L. esculentum: Solanum sitiens Solanum lycopersicoides Solanum juglandifolium Solanum ochranthum See: New nomenclature for Lycopersicon* typicum is hairier, glabratum is usually smoother looking with fewer hairs
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Post by Jim on Feb 20, 2009 12:15:12 GMT -5
cool read. Thanks.
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Post by atimberline on Feb 20, 2009 23:17:21 GMT -5
* typicum is hairier, glabratum is usually smoother looking with fewer hairs
... my hirsutum selection that showed root regen and exceptional disease resistance was a typicum, exceeding hairy. ....and in case you thought the crosses came easy, think again, ...it took me 2 years and hundreds of diverse attempts to get a few hundred F1's . ...All the F1's were more like the hursutum than anything...Seed was collected in mass from the F1's ....(maybe a misery of 1000-1500 seed), ...and hundreds of crosses and backcrosses were made with the F1's. ...a number of plants in the following generation showed ability to make shoots from roots but none ever captured the rot-out resistance of the hirsutum parent, ...and i was not able to pursue my work with that material any to much further. ....some of the hirsutum-esculentum crosses brought together hairiness upon hairiness... some were like cotton balls ! ...the poor anthers were so hairy they kept the pollen from getting to the pistil!!! anyhow... Tim Peters |
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Post by atimberline on Feb 20, 2009 23:29:47 GMT -5
...Some F1's made much more fruit and seed than others and those I cloned and used to get much more F2 seed the following year... Some F1's were totally sterile, not a single fruit or seed.
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Post by atimberline on Feb 20, 2009 23:35:25 GMT -5
....crosses and bc's using F1 pollen all made plenty of seed... the hard part was getting the original F1's...
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Post by Jim on Feb 21, 2009 13:56:12 GMT -5
this is great information.
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 26, 2009 6:48:42 GMT -5
Tim, several posts ago you mentioned wanting anything that was a nightshade perennial? I do have a very nasty weed that comes up annually. I'm not sure if that meets your criteria. Here are the facts as I have observed them:
1. Above ground die off each winter.
2. EXTREMELY thorny starting about 1" above dirt line.
3. Grows in disturbed and undisturbed areas.
4. "Holly" like leaves.
5. Average sized and shaped blossoms starting when plants are about 6" to 8".
a. I observed the first blossoms here about May 4th?
b. Blossoms are white with yellow centers.
c. I have not observed any fruits from these plants.
d. Blossoms are obviously of the same family as tomatoes, potatoes, huckleberries, and peppers that I have grown.
These are all the characteristics I can think of at the moment. I'd be happy to prepare some for you if you would find them useful.
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Post by canadamike on May 26, 2009 22:34:29 GMT -5
ot that I am fussy in another language than mine, but I swear I am still trying to figure out the title of this post...
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Post by grungy on May 26, 2009 23:19:06 GMT -5
it should have read interbreedable, Michel. Looks like someone's typing is about as good as ours?
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 26, 2009 23:19:12 GMT -5
I could be wrong Mike, but it could be:
Are all KNOWN Lycopersicon species interbreedable?
That's how I'm interpreting at least. "Interbreedable" is an unknown word to me, I'm presuming it is a scientific term beyond my scope of knowledge. Therefore; I must also presume that it's correct.
Hope that helps! I think it's awesome how you've mastered two languages.
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Post by ottawagardener on Jun 1, 2009 18:07:44 GMT -5
Tim: I have a species of perennial ground cherry (I think it is clammy) that I got from a local small seed supplier. I'll be happy to give you some seeds should I get some. It's supposed to taste good.
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Post by Jim on Jun 1, 2009 18:33:10 GMT -5
sorry about the spelling. I didn't realize it wuz so impotent....
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 1, 2009 18:42:32 GMT -5
 impotent? Isn't that a bad word for plant breeders? 
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Post by alkapuler on Jun 3, 2009 0:10:46 GMT -5
going back into the past to remember how some interesting tomato cultivars came to be is not so simple...
so i asked Kusra about where the centiflors came from, tomatoes with more than a hundred flowers per inflorescence
and she remembers crossing hirsutum with humboldtii
and while humboldtii has 2-3 dozen flowers per inflorescence, its progeny with hirsutum are covered with fine stellate hairs that give the spikes the appearance of insects
and then too there are sometimes huge tresses of flowers and fruits
i looked into the suggested website for species tomatoes and have my doubts about the photos and correct identifications
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impotent? Isn't that a bad word for plant breeders? 