Chickpeas/garbanzos

[atash]

Rice contains glutin, which is a sticky starch, not gluten, which is a long-chain protein that is prone to triggering allergies if it gets into your bloodstream without being broken down. They are not related. It's just a coincidence that the names are frustratingly similar.

[raymondo]

Jo, as far as I know, corn and rice are the only two cereal grains that are gluten free. Barley, oats, rye and wheat all contain gluten. There are also non-cereal 'grains' like amaranth and buckwheat but I don't know which of these are gluten free.

[ottawagardener]

Millet and Teff are also gluten free.

[atash]

Probably time to start a new thread as we are now off-topic and I am feeling guilty about writing about non-legumes in a legume thread.

I am curious if Barley really contains any gluten, or if it is banned from gluten-free diets due to contamination risk (it is often processed with wheat).

Unfortunately, wheat relations like Kamut and Spelt are often mistakenly recommended for gluten-free diets, despite the fact that they contain gluten just like their more highly-bred cousin. Anything in that complex, including Triticale and Rye, contain at least some gluten.

Technically oats do not contain gluten, but there is a catch: they contain Avenin which like gluten is a long-chain protein prone to triggering allergic reactions in its own right. In fact, I can easily tolerate wheat but am still extremely sensitive to oats. To avoid killing celiacs based on a technicality, they are lumped into the gluten grains. But if you tried to make bread out of them without mixing in a flour that really does contain gluten, you would be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Don't forget sorghum as yet another gluten-free cereal. I ate it as porridge while nursing my gut. Unfortunately tho it is relatively low in protein and therefor not as filling as oats or wheat. It's not bad though. I don't know why most people won't eat sorghum, but instead feed it to livestock. Seems like a waste.

Buckwheat is a non-cereal grain that is gluten-free, and it's a complete protein too. I sometimes eat buckwheat porridge, or grind it down to flour and add a little to pancakes.

Back on topic : I found Lupine flour recommended for gluten-free diets.

Bad news: approximately 1% of the population will get anaphylactic shock from eating Lupine flour, or just getting it into their lungs. There is not a perfect correlation, but they tend to be the same folks allergic to peanuts. Several people have had crises after eating pastries made using lupine flour in Europe. I can eat it but I warn other people because peanut allergies are fairly common.

Ironically for celiacs, Lupine flour is usually added to wheat flour to improve its amino acid balance and add some unobtrusive fiber.

[mnjrutherford]

I frequently add cooked oatmeal to my sourdough bread and still get a good rise. The oatmeal actually allows the bread to retain it's "just baked" texture a few hours longer than no oatmeal. I can add about 1 cup cooked porridge to 4 cups flour, 2 cups starter, and water as needed to make the dough of the correct consistency. Oh yea, 2 teaspoons of salt. The salt plays a big role in the rising process though I could not tell you what. All I know is that if salt is not added, the rising process does not occur. This puzzles me because from what I have read, salt is not supposed to be added until the end of the kneading process because it inhibits the yeast action?

[mnjrutherford]

Raymundo, thanks for the input. I kinda think that containing gluten is not the only issue. I believe it also depends on how much gluten.

Tell me something... have any of you ever eaten at an Asian vegetarian restaurant?

[raymondo]

Yes, a Chinese veg restaurant. Why do you ask?

[ottawagardener]

I was just going to mention Sorghum and Oats! They popped into my head yesterday (my youngest is celiac). I didn't know that about Lupins though I do know some people that are allergic/sensitive to various legumes... I'm glad we have no nut or legume allergy as that would really restrict our diet.

[atash]

All I know is that if salt is not added, the rising process does not occur. This puzzles me because from what I have read, salt is not supposed to be added until the end of the kneading process because it inhibits the yeast action?

Yeast does not like salt, and it slows down the rising process. It's a necessary evil, though, for both taste (salt-free bread tastes a bit flat) and something--I am not clear what--that it does to the dough itself. Maybe it's just slowing down the yeast so the gluten strands don't tear; I dunno. But you can make bread without salt if you adjust the recipe. I've accidentally done it a few times. lol

As for oats, they give a bread a moist, tender crumb. Too much though will slow down the rise and create a dense, doughy loaf.

[atash]

Tell me something... have any of you ever eaten at an Asian vegetarian restaurant?

Yes, many times. Are you wondering about using gluten to make ersatz meat? Often they are a combination of gluten and textured soy protein.

[mnjrutherford]

Raymundo, what Atash said... they pound the daylights out of a glutenous food stuff to attain the gluten. Then, they add other stuff that makes it look and "sorta" taste like a meat product. But the question would be, if a gluten sensitive person tried this "health" food, they would probably die in short order, right? The next question is, WHAT do they get the gluten from? Do they grow a lot of wheat in China? Or would it be from other sources? In California there was a restaurant that made fake sweet and sour "pork" in this fashion and the "pork" tasted exactly like toasted pecans. Marvelous but only while it was fresh made. Once it cooled down it lost that toasted pecan flavor and re-heating did not bring it back...

As for salt in the bread... In Mallorca Spain, there is a "native" bread that is flour and water only. No salt. It has a perfect crumb, it's formed into rounds, but it isn't very tall. Frankly, I'd rather get salt and use it. I give dough that has suffered such an accident to the chickens. =oP

[atash]

Yes, they grow a lot of wheat in China, up in Manchuria where it is too cold to grow most kinds of rice--although they actually have some types of rice that can grow cooler and drier than is usually the case.

They probably grow wheat in the northwest--Xin Jiang neighboring provinces--for the same reason. Much too cold and dry for rice.

Chinese wheat usually does not have as much gluten as hard wheats from other countries, so they buy a lot of wheat. It is railroaded from Montana and other states to the port in Seattle, and shipped overseas to various buyers. They probably get some from Russia too. India grows a lot of wheat but probably don't export any significant amount as domestic demand is too high to have much left over.

The Chinese do something funky with their softer wheats that I do not quite understand: they can render it surprisingly chewy, despite its lower gluten content, using alkaline. Lye or soda--don't remember which. Chinese buns and Chinese noodles have a peculiar texture as a result of their chemical tinkering with softer wheat.

Chinese vegetarian restaurants might promote health themes for their marketing, but their primary and original purpose was for feeding practicing Buddhists. Most lay Buddhists are not vegetarians, and in a few countries like Korea even the monks aren't, but it's becoming increasingly common for lay Buddhists to eat vegetarian meals from time to time. Because even meat-eating Chinese eat very little by way of milk products, and although they dearly love eggs they are a bit of a luxury, it's not uncommon that Chinese vegetarian products are totally "vegan".

Taiwan was where they started making the fake meat (I think it might have actually been an American idea to make textured soy protein, but nothing ever came of it here! Most Americans think they're being shortchanged to feed them fake soy meat--it's caused scandals in schools when they've gotten caught). Traditional Chinese culture DOES have a lot of vegetarian dishes, and some of them quite exquisite (the Emperor himself went vegetarian for 40 days around Chinese New Year, to honor the Boddha), but they use daufu ("tofu") and various vegetables that can be made to taste vaguely meat-like, rather than using fake meat. I have had an odd dish made out of eggplants, that smells like fish and maybe could pass for the flesh of a very very soft fish (no, not really, but it is oddly vaguely fish-like...). I don't know how they do that.

Another common trick is to make a meat dish using only vegetables, not to taste like meat, but only to look like meat to fool the eye, in order to intentionally create a surprise when you bite into it. I've had "vegetarian spare ribs" made from sweet potatoes, seaweed maybe, and a sinfully sweet and savory rib sauce. Looks like meat, but tastes like sweet potatoes with an overly-rich sauce.

They've used textured, soy-flavored gluten for a long time now. It comes in cans, sometimes as mixtures labeled something like "lo-han-tsai" (for lack of a better translation, "monk vegetarian food"). I don't know official transliterations so I do whatever sounds right to my ears.

They've used soybeans for thousands of years, so that itself is nothing new. It's just the idea of spinning the proteins through spinarettes to give them meat-like textures, that is relatively new (well, mayby 20-30 years old now).

[12540dumont]

This is Carol Deppe's Hannan Popbean. This year we planted it very early. As a matter of fact, I started it in trays and transplanted. They are about to flower.

Guess where the amaranth was last year? Yeah, I'm behind on the weeding (and everything else).

Attachments:

[blueadzuki]

One of my chickpea pots started flowering today(pinkish purple) Wth the weather we've been having up here this year, the cold loving chickpeas are basically the ONLY thing that is actually thriving (it's been so cold even the peas have been chill stunted). Pot 2 is covered with buds so it should start flowering in a day or two as well, with pot 3 at some time in the future (the plants there are 1. at least a month younger than the other two and 2. growing from the smallest seed I picked out, so it isn't all that surprising they're a little behind)

[oxbowfarm]

Ha Ha, mine look like this!