|
|
Post by PatrickW on Aug 25, 2009 13:58:38 GMT -5
What to you hope to accomplish with the silver?
If what you are doing is just testing something, well okay, but what are you testing? It's really not something to use for any period of time, because it will build up. It's not something you want in your garden or to leave for the next generation.
It's not poisonous to people, but that doesn't mean it's not bad for the environment.
Silver ions will combine with other ions in the soil, and will stay. For a while I was wondering why I couldn't find copper based fungicides for late blight here, especially since I know people in both the UK and Belgium who regularly use it. It turns out it's illegal in the Netherlands because copper is a heavy metal and builds up in the soil. Obviously there are people who use copper based fungicides, but that doesn't mean they aren't controversial.
Zac: Common fertilizers will build up in the soil, but will eventually break down. Silver will last a whole lot longer, and this is true if you use a small or large amount.
|
|
|
|
Post by canadamike on Aug 25, 2009 14:20:41 GMT -5
Patrick, I am just in a pissed off panic mode here, you might be right, I dunno, never used it, but some people I know have a lot of respect for it. But I sure totally agree with the limited use. And I am talking testing here, with WHATEVER  anyway.... |
|
|
|
Post by silverseeds on Aug 25, 2009 16:32:11 GMT -5
patrick well I just wont grow something If it keeps getting diseases. I think its alot less silver then you might realise, but surely it ouldnt be used forever. I wouldnt use it as a plant feed, but I might try it for something like blight. Especially if it was to save a tree. It seriously might work. I dont know much about blight, but from what I know of the two I think it has a chance.
|
|
|
|
Post by hiven on Aug 25, 2009 16:47:02 GMT -5
Patrick, a lot things being label as organic garden product are banned in NL copper sulphate is one of it. People can still get these product in other EU country. You can get the micro Sulphate though (with out copper).
Michel, I have experiment using aspirin mix with Micro sulphate ,but honestly I can not take any conclusion about it's benefit... i posted this just now at other thread where you posted pictures of your blighted spuds.
|
|
|
|
Post by orflo on Aug 25, 2009 22:45:31 GMT -5
Just be very careful in whatever you use for protection, fertilisation or whatever. I don't use any metal in the garden, the oldest use of metal in gardens is indeed the 'bouillie bordelaise', the copper based fungicide. This has been used for years against blight in Europe, but more specifically in French vineyards, year after year. There is a massive build-up of copper in these grounds, and a reduced fertility. Think now about what 's a possible consequence tomorrow.
Also consider this: earth has limited resources, copper or other metals will , in long term, become very scarce, so it's just best to concentrate on things that don't need artificial circumstances or additions, disease-resistant or better producing varieties for instance.
|
|
|
|
Post by silverseeds on Aug 25, 2009 22:50:21 GMT -5
orflo your right of course. Breeding should be the answer.
as for silver itself, I dont think it would carry the risks copper does, but I can say we have literally the same amount of gold ever mined as humans, but silver was used for mny things, and the vast vast majority lasted milnnia like gold, but was used this century for such things as devoloping film. Its not a renewable resource either as you point out. this goes for all the metal we humans seem to use and abuse. Im not sure we are as smart as we think we are.
|
|
sphinxeyes
gardener
Suburbia, small garden in side yard, containers on larger back deck. Hot humid summers.
Posts: 154
|
Post by sphinxeyes on Aug 26, 2009 0:35:10 GMT -5
Patrick - you said that colloidal silver isn't harmful to people, but I'm not so sure about that. They do sell it as a nutritional supplement in some places. It's supposed to have antimicrobial properties and help boost your immune system, or that's how it's marketed at least. But I have a friend of mine who was taking it for a year to help with his acne. I think he ingested it internally and used it as an astringent on his face. I don't know the percentage of silver in the mixture he was taking, but after a year of using it, it turned his face silver. Seriously. He had pale skin to begin with, but under fluorescent lighting his skin tone looks grey. People are always asking if he's an actor because it looks like he has grey make-up on his face.  Nothing has been able to reverse the effect and because silver is a heavy metal and is absorbed into your cells, the only way to remove it from your body is through chelation therapy, and even that isn't always 100% effective. I don't know if it has done any permanent damage to his organs, but having it color your skin like that is bad enough. :\ |
|
|
|
Post by PatrickW on Aug 26, 2009 8:27:59 GMT -5
SE, That doesn't sound very good! I hope he finds a way to get his skin color back!
I have to redo my house foundation, and one of the things the city made me do was test the ground for contamination. It turns out I have very high levels of zinc under my house, and the city is making me at least do some cleaning.
Zinc comes mostly from smelting, and it's harmless to people. In fact, like the silver, it's sold as a food supplement, and you need to eat it in small quantities to be healthy. It is however a serious pollutant, and in particular dangerous to marine life. It's some previous generation's gift to me who didn't know better, and really I think it's important for everyone to avoid creating that kind of contamination for someone else, no matter how small the amount.
|
|
|
|
Post by silverseeds on Aug 26, 2009 8:43:53 GMT -5
patrick how do you clean zinc out of soil? yikes?
As for the silver/blight. I am curious if it works, but personally, I will either try to find a variety not susceptable, or simply grow different things if a disease hits my garden. If silver does work on blight, I would use it to save a tree, but not tomatoes. Certainly not yearly. I really dont think it carries the risks you seem to think it does, but I just want a more holistic approach. I intend to garden as if it was 1850 I just happen to have better access to plant varieties now.
|
|
|
|
Post by PatrickW on Aug 26, 2009 8:51:23 GMT -5
patrick how do you clean zinc out of soil? yikes? I have to pay to have all the dirt under my house dug up and disposed of as toxic waste, then replaced with clean sand. In addition, the workers have to follow certain protocols in order to make sure they don't spread the contamination. |
|
|
|
Post by silverseeds on Aug 26, 2009 8:55:24 GMT -5
oh man thats rough. any idea how this excessive zinc got there? you said the water table is right below the surface, has it then spread the contamination around your yard?
|
|
|
|
Post by Emerald on Aug 26, 2009 9:12:31 GMT -5
I don't know anything about silver but on the bacteria problem of blights(for taters and tomatoes), I have done some reading and wondering and thinking about this very thing.
I haven't heard about aspirin as an anti fungal but I have used good compost in my seedling trays to fight damping off- so if compost is really good at fighting the bad bacteria, why not try using compost tea as a blight fighter?
I'm sure that some of you all ready do this, make compost tea in a big barrel/bucket with the little fish tank air pump and rock to add oxygen to the mix- most bad bacteria doesn't care for oxygen. Let it perk for a couple of days and then strain well and then spray that on the affected plants. For even better tea you might even throw a few aspirin in the mix, or better yet- clip about a buckets worth of willow twigs and put in the compost tea while it is perking- why waste aspirin.
Another try would be for skim milk mixed with water- works on my pumpkins and squash (if I remember to do it  ) for powdery mildew. It would be something to try for next year.
I can only grow potatoes in buckets with sterile potting mix and compost (homemade) - we have scab here in the soil something fierce and I don't care to use anything that is not organic so it is hot compost and potting mix for me- I am thinking of putting some soil on an old shower enclosure( just a huge rectangle of hard plastic) that I have then sealing the soil in with some black or clear plastic and maybe solarizing(sp) it for a summer and see if that will take care of the scab problem. For my apple trees I use organic sulfur spray for the scab, but it didn't work for the taters. Whoopsey I digress.
But the solarizing of the soil might work too, if you care to lose that hunk of soil for gardening that year to "cook" it. Then plant your taters there the next year.
Just thoughts here, but things that I will keep in mind for next years tater plot.
|
|
|
|
Post by bunkie on Aug 26, 2009 9:43:32 GMT -5
good luck patrick with the removal of your soil...sounds like quite a project. michel, izzy on the idig forum has posted a lot on her experiments with EM and BIM. here, about half way down the page, she posts about her first trials with making them and her first results on a couple of pepper plants that had yellow and brown splotches...Septoria leaf spot... i know this isn't your blight, but it might help... idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17135&page=2 i have not tried aspirin...i wonder if willow water would be a possibility. i have so far been just experimenting with LB on some of my plants that just aren't 'greening up', and there's a definite improvement. |
|
|
|
Post by PatrickW on Aug 26, 2009 10:25:52 GMT -5
oh man thats rough. any idea how this excessive zinc got there? you said the water table is right below the surface, has it then spread the contamination around your yard? My house was built in 1680 (330 years old), during the heyday of the Dutch East Indies Trading Company, probably financed with the trade of spices, slaves and tobacco. Until the 1930s the ground floor was dirt, but then later covered with a layer of concrete. Who knows what what going on in my house before the concrete floor was put in, but since zinc usually comes from metal smelting, I assume this was going on in or near the house at some point. Consider that if you use silver in your garden, and someone does a soil test in 330 years, they will still be able to find it in the ground. Zinc contamination is a common problem in Amsterdam. I got a letter from the city saying the contamination was so high that under normal circumstances a follow-up study would be required to identify the source, but in my case they wouldn't require this because it's a generally accepted wide-spread problem in the city. |
|
|
|
Post by silverseeds on Aug 26, 2009 10:37:12 GMT -5
Wow 330 years old? thats pretty neat. seriously I am not going to use silver, I just thought it might help blight. If used right it wont turn you colors either. Im trying to breed plants adapted to my area, and hardy enough to not need constant input, and hopefully have enought varieties, that should disease hit, it wont take everything. Im trying to learn how to do everything in as simple as possible ways. I want to garden as if it was pre industrial revolution, and I just have a wider range of knowledge and seed.
|
|
anyway....
Nothing has been able to reverse the effect and because silver is a heavy metal and is absorbed into your cells, the only way to remove it from your body is through chelation therapy, and even that isn't always 100% effective. I don't know if it has done any permanent damage to his organs, but having it color your skin like that is bad enough. :\
) for powdery mildew. It would be something to try for next year.