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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 10, 2009 20:38:19 GMT -5
A few days ago, someone in some thread posted a link to this organization and mentioned acquiring rooted cuttings.
I followed that link and found it to be rather exciting though WAY over my head in content regarding accessions, genetic this and that, etc. I was also a bit taken aback to find seed donated by Monsanto and other questionable entities available by request.
On the other hand, stuff is there for the asking! Literally! You do have to make a statement regarding use and agree to report on results. That works for me as we see our lives here as a project. Anyhow, I've sent out requests for stuff from several of the stations.
OH YEA! Duh on me! Google ARS GRIN to find the best link.
Does anyone know the secret to navigating the labyrinthine site? I know there are TONS of things I want but can't find such as chinquapin georgiana? Clues? Thoughts? Comments? Ideas?
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Post by grunt on Sept 11, 2009 4:13:57 GMT -5
Jo: Try entering just part of the name. The reason you can't find chinquapin georgiana is that they don't have it. They have only two Chrysolepis chrysophylla listed (did an experimental search using only chinquapin). Get creative, and/or be willing to look through lots and lots of pages by getting basic in your question ie "Fabaceae" brings up this result = Results for "Fabaceae"= 87075 results. Adding "Material is available for distribution" to "Fabaceae" only drops it to 84152 results.
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Post by paquebot on Sept 12, 2009 0:16:15 GMT -5
It's not meant to be easy. When a lot of people "discovered" it, too many tried to use it as a free seed company. The result was virtually shutting the door to all until new guidelines could be established. It's still set up to cater to serious propagators rather than casual gardeners and that's how it should be.
Martin
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 12, 2009 7:42:53 GMT -5
On the other hand, if someone like me with practically zero income wants to turn their property into a highly diversified permaculture with a minor focus on annuals for personal consumption... I will be able to comply with my statement of bi- annual reporting assuming I can figure out how and what to report. IF I can figure out how to return seed or other suitable samples I'll do that as well. But even that procedure is obscure.
Ya know, I was never able to get a fancy education to learn how to be a "serious propagator". But I've put hours upon hours as a "casual gardener" with a single goal in mind, to be a farmer and to pass the desire to my children. City born and bred I am as well. I sure hope that when my requests are received that the curators will grant them.
Another thing, when we arrived to this property, the previous owners had used the creek as their trash dump, the trash is all gone now. The creek area was over grown with all kinds of things we knew not what. It's still a forest but you can walk through it now. The major portion of the property had only 4 trees on it. There are more than a hundred now, including a small orchard of 30+ trees with 18 new trees being added this coming week.
You are right Martin, we are nothing more than "casual gardeners" and don't deserve to be given access to the tax payer funded GRIN. Thank you for putting me in my place and letting me know I shouldn't aspire to loftier goals.
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Post by bunkie on Sept 12, 2009 9:20:17 GMT -5
i say 'aspire on' jo, you 'casual gardener' you! ;D
i enjoy your updates on your property and what you're growing. really great work for a 'city' folk! so glad you can pass this farming on to your kids...
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 12, 2009 9:34:07 GMT -5
Thanks Bunkie. I needed that back pat.  |
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Post by elkwc36 on Sept 12, 2009 10:00:19 GMT -5
Jo I say go for it. It is funny that so many that say you can't or shouldn't be getting seeds from GRIN are getting them. Guess they don't want to lose their source. And I know Martin and he isn't one I'm talking about. I have one variety that another person got out of GRIN for me. I grow it because it was developed here in KS and does well in our climate. And also to keep it going as there are very few developed in KS still around. I share seeds when someone wants some. So can't see what is wrong with that. I pay my taxes like the others. And as devoted to my garden and seed saving as most are. JMO. Jay
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 12, 2009 10:39:40 GMT -5
JMO? What does that mean Jay? Thanks for the support.
I do have a new question though. We have so many things coming in and I really do want to report back both to GRIN and to you folks here as well. Is there a short course available on taxonomy?
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Post by silverseeds on Sept 12, 2009 12:53:18 GMT -5
worst thing they can do is say no. Im going to try to get some seeds from them myself, trying to find the best approach. Heck I would pay them if they were set up like that. Im pretty serious about my work and studies too, as clearly you are. I want to design the permaculture style that works in this arid area, and germplasm for this style is just not easy to find.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 12, 2009 13:11:44 GMT -5
Well Zac, hang out a few days before sending our your request and I'll let you know how they respond to me. Then you can make a better judgment on how to approach them. I did eventually come across something saying that they preferred sending a single request form. I couldn't tell if that meant to a single collection center or to GRIN in general. Anyway, I've sent out at least 2 and I think 3 requests because as I said earlier to someone else, every time I think I've seen everything and send it off, I find more stuff I want! I have noticed that you can start the request, walk away for a period of time (overnight) and when you come back to it (even if you've navigated away from the page) your entries are still there. Here is a good place to start: www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/stats/You might even start by making a want list. BE THOROUGH! You can post it here as well! But I'm asking for olives, apricots, grapes, carnations, chestnuts, nectarines, almonds, gladiolus, and way more. Be kinda careful when you look at the taxonomy stuff. It's pretty confusing and not at all standardized from species to species which is kinda understandable but kinda "HUH?" as well. I put a lot of words through GOOGLE just to figure out what the heck they meant! And I consider myself pretty well armed with words! ;o) |
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Post by paquebot on Sept 12, 2009 13:20:47 GMT -5
You are right Martin, we are nothing more than "casual gardeners" and don't deserve to be given access to the tax payer funded GRIN. Thank you for putting me in my place and letting me know I shouldn't aspire to loftier goals. It's not my intention to put anyone in their place. GRIN was set up as a repository for seeds which were either collected or donated. There is no rotating system where new incoming seeds replace the old outgoing seeds. If all are going out to only be used for personal use, there then comes a day when there are no more in stock and no source for replacement. When that happens, the loss is permanent. I have never used GRIN but know certain people who have used it properly or improperly. A noted case of improper use was a guy in California who claimed to represent SSE and then had the guts to brag about it on both GardenWeb and IDig forums. Trudi D, of Wintersown, does use it for tomatoes and distributes the resultant seeds freely via her organization. I am growing one of them this year, Banjan Roomii. It is a variety collected in Afghanistan in 1941 and apparently never grown out until Trudi requested it last year. She was given 50 seeds and one germinated. From that one seed, there are now going to be many of them in circulation and with no fear of it being lost. Martin |
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Post by stratcat on Sept 12, 2009 13:29:00 GMT -5
Hi, Jo.
I got a tomato out of ARS-GRIN in 2007 when they said it couldn't be done. Read about Cream City back in 1995 and couldn't find it anywhere except in the seedbank. I always felt some people were being stingy with the seeds they acquired.
I multiplied Cream City and shared it. Even sent it to a small seed catalog. It's a winner. I picked a ripe one today and am eating it in a tomato sandwich right now. Mmh!
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Post by silverseeds on Sept 12, 2009 13:31:39 GMT -5
paquebot, well What I intend to ask for is, mainly from their desert legume section, but now that I know they have trees as well, I might look for a few adapted to this locale or similar ones. I hope to build a working relationship with them, as a newbie plant breeder.
I have a friend who alread yhas a working reltionship with them and is willing to get seed for me, but Id first like to try to establish a bond with them personally, as I hope to use them as a source for the years to come. I understand you point it IS a resource that need support and respect.
but if you look around I think you will see I and Jo for that matter would be sharing seeds far and wide as well.
My intend is to find and perfect low input cropping systems for this area, which is considered near impossible to farm large scale, due to lack of water, and VERy poor soil. The germplasm exists, I need to find it, and hpefully more then one crop.
I think kusa has some promising grains, and tim's perennial grains have me VERy excited. Now if I can find a legume, and some fruiting and nut trees, I would have a good start. A basic diet.
As I see it local food is or should be the future, I intend to do my part for this specific location in which nothing but small scale intensive farming is done. but this is due to people here, thinking since we cant farm like a mis western state, or california, that farming wont work here, and that is just wrong.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 12, 2009 14:13:25 GMT -5
OK StratCat, I'm TOTALLY jealous of the tomato sandwich!  None of my tomatoes have made it that far... well, not yet at least. There is no system on earth which can not be used for both good and for bad. Those that will take advantage without giving advantage are as numerous as those who are willing to give as well as receive. In the end, I imagine there are more givers than takers because if this were not true, then GRIN would no longer exist as the germplasm would all be gone by now. That said, is there anyway I can give back to them now? I'm kinda thinking my basil seed might be useful. I'll have to look at donation procedures. Has anyone here ever donated? |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Sept 12, 2009 20:51:36 GMT -5
Hey StratCat! I did a GOOGLE on Cream City.  HOLY COW! Talk about an easy way to shock an old woman I nearly passed out! When I could type again, I added tomato to the string and that didn't help much but it did return a really yummy sounding restaurant in Fon du Lac, WI. So tell me a little bit more about the tomato. Do you think you'll have it in your catalog this season? |
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None of my tomatoes have made it that far... well, not yet at least. 
HOLY COW! Talk about an easy way to shock an old woman