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Post by Alan on Jan 30, 2008 23:38:09 GMT -5
Hey PapaVic, did you get my PM regarding Mozark. I also wrote up a short blog about Mozark refrencing you at homegrowngoodness.blogspot.com that you might be interested in.
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Post by PapaVic on Jan 31, 2008 11:36:36 GMT -5
Yes, I have a few Mozark seeds. I listed it in SSE Yearbook this year as "limited quantity - must relist," so I can spare a few now, but hope you will increase the supply this summer. I'll try to send them out before next Thursday along with a slew of Indian Stripe x Sungold F2s for you to scatter about and look for interesting offspring.
Bill
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Post by Alan on Jan 31, 2008 13:35:40 GMT -5
Thanks Bill, I appreciate it and will be glad to do a seed increase this year. Do you still have my address?
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Post by PapaVic on Jan 31, 2008 18:23:45 GMT -5
They'll be in the mail by 6:00 PM, CST. Look for them tomorrow or Saturday.
Bill
HEY TOM ... LOOK BACK ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE TWO!
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Post by tatermater on Feb 1, 2008 10:01:44 GMT -5
PapaVic, This means that a number of obscure numbered varieties of Lambeth's are in complicated pedigree charts as I think back on my breeding work. Especially so in taking Kerr's work and making it more Midwest adaptable. Generally that means having a bit more fruit protection from the sun, and slightly larger vines.
One of my goals while I was in the Kansas/Missouri area was to take germplasm from the USDA, Cornell, Ontario, Florida, California, Arkansas, Northern Rockies, Plains States, old heirlooms, my creations of novelties, wild germplasm, and other localities' tomatoes and introgressed them into huge descendant charts into doable recoms for my area. If that meant using Lambeth's lines too, Yes.
Much of that type of breeding for red tomatoes never went anywhere with my old Tater Mater Seed catalog. Who wanted red tomatoes? Red tomatoes were, and are, a dime a dozen. That is why I am known for my unusual tomatoes. I will keep most of these breeding lines in house until someone or some entity pays me to regrow the seed and release them en mass. Since there will be no grants, and no putting up the thousands of dollars to do that; these materials will languish until they are no longer viable or are thrown away at my demise.
With a few exceptions, no. Granted some inbreds had names eventually, but the modern hybrid movement was going toward having inbred lines that were hugely unexceptionably awful as a stand alone variety. As a result many of those inbreds (numbered varieties) vanished from the woodshed.
Glamour was without a doubt in my mind, one of the outstanding tomatoes of its' day. It had flavor and looked beautiful if grown well. This is one of the lines that I used a lot in my breeding work. Many hybrids on the market in the heydays of the hybrid Avalanche also had Glamour as one of its parents. Those details are private to the companies who still market those hybrids.
That your Glamour did not impress you could have multiple causes. One, anytime a variety loses popularity, a thirty year period of neglect can be devastating. It only takes a few years for sub populations and strains to be neglected, and the source of your Glamour may have had all sorts of things going on. That alone is a topic of future discussion.
Perhaps because I have used Glamour in many crosses, I see the hybrid vigor and qualities enhanced. I see where selfed populations of the Glamour hybrids yield superior true breeding progenies.
The nice thing about some of Victor Lambeth's work with hybrids is that we can duplicate them. Anyone living in the areas of Pennsylvania west to Kansas. Arkansas north to Wisconsin will benefit from having durable hybrids, albeit dated, that can be tested and grown for posterity's sake.
Other than what I have stated, I have no useful information. My only regret is that no company picked me up to spearhead a renaissance of breeding old and new hybrids.
Tom Wagner
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Post by PapaVic on Feb 1, 2008 12:56:38 GMT -5
For anyone who is following this side convo, and if you're interested in Glamour ...
NCSU Cultiver Lists: "Glamour - Breeder: Birds-Eye Hort. Res. Lab., Albion, New York. Vendor: Joseph Harris Co., Rochester, New York. Parentage: Burgess Crackproof x Sioux. Characteristics: smooth, attractive fruit; heavy first cluster set. Resistance: cracking. Similar: Sioux. Adaptation: northeastern and midwestern United States and the tri-state area. Harris Catalog. 1957."
Note: Resistance to cracking, due probably to Burgess Crackproof as one of the parents.
NCSU Cultivar Lists: "Burgess Crack Proof - Breeder and vendor: Burgess Seed & Plant Co., Galesburg, Michigan. Parentage: unknown; sample received from an Ohio fancier about 1940; unlike any other cultivar. Characteristics: practical immunity of fruit to radial cracks. Resistance: growth cracks. Burgess Catalog 1945."
Re: The other parent of Glamour, Sioux ... NCSU Cultivar Lists: "Sioux - Breeder: Dept. of Hort., Nebraska Agr. Expt. Sta., Univ. of Nebraska, Lincoln. Parentage: Stokesdale x Allred. Characteristics: second early, intermediate, dependable fruit setting in hot weather, fruits round, very smooth, very uniform; generally suitable for home or fresh early market throughout upper Mississippi valley. Univ. of Nebraska, Dept. of Hort. Prog. Rpt 6. 1944."
Okay, back to Lanbeth's work, or the University of Missouri's breeding program ...
NCSU Cultivar Lists: "Mozark - Breeder and vendor: Missouri Agric. Expt. Sta., Columbia. Parentage: Earliana, Lycopersicon pimpinellifolium, Break-O-Day, Bison, Greater Baltimore. Characteristics: early, concentrated set, uniform ripening, heat tolerant, some resistance to cracking; determinate vine. Resistance: fusarium wilt race 1. Similar: Bison. Adaptation: midwestern United States. Lambeth, V. N., 1958, The Mozark tomato. Res. Bull. Mo. Agric. Ep. Sta, 680:8. 1958."
NCSU Cultivar Lists: "Avalanche (20-St-4, STEP 382) - Breeder: University of Missouri, Columbia. Vendor: Standard Seed and Archias, Sedalia, Missouri. Parentage: Mozark x Glamour. Characteristics: F1 hybrid, plant indeterminate, good foliage cover; fruit red, large, uniform ripening; very prolific; tolerant to radial and concentric cracking. Resistance: fusarium wilt and gray leaf spot. Adaptation: midwestern, eastern and southern United States. Amer. Veg. Grower, Dec. 1963."
Avalanche apparently was a really popular hybrid out in Arkansas, Okalahoma and Missouri. Now it's discontinued. It seems simple enough to obtain Mozark and Glamour and make your own crosses, right? But while my Mozark was a great little plant, the Glamour was a flop for me. I had seeds from two commercial sources. Maybe I should try again in the future.
And then there's another hybrid from Mizzou ...
NCSU Cultiver Lists: "MoCross Surprise Hybrid - Breeder: University of Missouri, Columbia. Parentage: Mozark x Sioux (Early Red). Characteristics: F1 hybrid, early, prolific, uniform ripening, resistant to radial cracking; heavier foliage than Sioux. Resistance: fusarium wilt. Adaptation: midwestern United States. Mo. Veg. News, Oct. 1959. 1960."
Hmmmm ... there's another possible project, Alan, huh?
Oh, and Tom, if you happen to have any top notch Glamour seeds ... I sure would appreciate a few ... and I would be happy to pay for them, too!
Bill
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Post by tatermater on Feb 1, 2008 14:12:59 GMT -5
Thanks Bill,
Not too many people talk my language. I guess we are communicating in ways that most people could only imagine!
Oh, to find my Glamours! I wish I could go through my seed collections that are buried in storage, but I think it would depress me to a level I don't want to go to.
When I sort seed, I have to do it when I am actually sowing or the bummed out feeling gets me. That Glamour would be in some older seed that I was not going to go through for this year's seeding.
I am having setbacks that I did not expect, so I am just dreaming at this time trying not to let the dreaming become mare-like.
Back to Sioux. One of my first crosses was with this one. Had I known at that time that there were ready made crosses of it like MOCROSS Surprise, I may not have pursued my crossing. Ignorance is bliss, but it don't pay the bills.
The STEP program was unique. I wish I could have been involved in it during its heyday. More on that later.
Hoping that I can at least get some organization for the year 2009. This year is looking poorly.
Tom Wagner
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Post by Earl on Feb 29, 2008 11:19:40 GMT -5
Dave,
Which ones are you growing out? I will be planting the Kerr varieties that I got from you.
Hopefully.
Earl
My updated list is posted over at Tradeville.
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Post by PapaVic on Feb 29, 2008 14:12:58 GMT -5
Dave, Which ones are you growing out? I will be planting the Kerr varieties that I got from you. Hopefully. Earl My updated list is posted over at Tradeville. Where is Tradeville? Do you have a link?
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Post by kctomato on Feb 29, 2008 14:44:24 GMT -5
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Post by grungy on Feb 29, 2008 17:15:53 GMT -5
Dave, Your seeds are sitting here in an envelope waiting. Remember there are over 1600 varieties alphabeticallized (sp?) in our "to grow out" bank, so if you can supply us a list - even partial list of what you are looking for besides the few we discussed. Cheers, Val
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Post by americangardener on Feb 29, 2008 18:16:33 GMT -5
Hi again guys.. sorry i've been gone for awhile. I've been having the worst luck with computers and the internet the last couple months. The latest problem was with a temporary computer i was using while waiting for this darn cable modem to arrive. Came home the other day and apparently the thing had shorted out somehow.. smelled of burnt wiring... so again i lost all my info.. but worse thing was i couldn't get back online with this new computer cause it dosen't have a regular phone modem. So i lost another two weeks while waiting for this one to arrive. But!!.. finally i am back online and with a much better computer.
Val... i had a pretty extensive list of kerrs varieties put together before the other computer burned up. But all i have written down on paper that i can find right now are about 100 or so of em.. I'll Pm ya this list tonite.
Earl... I plan to grow out all the ones i sent you and then some.. whatever else i come up with in the next month or two. I probably will only plant a few of the ones you're gonna be growing though.. I'm thinking around three each. The rest I'm gonna shoot for anywhere's between 3-10 each. I just figure since you're gonna be growing some of the same ones as me, i wouldn't have to trial as many of those. Hopefully i'll be ready to begin planting my flats in about 2-3 weeks.
And KC.. thanks for the link.. i needed that! I also lost all my bookmarks and gotta try and find everything all over again... that link sure helps.
OK.. now i better go answer some more messages in my PM box... and then i'll send you my list Val....
Dave
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