determinates or indet's

[Jim]

This year in addition to the dwarves I'm planning on growing a higher portion of determinates than indets. Especially for people like my grandma who I will give only det plants as she is not really up for trellising.

I was curious what people prefer.

[sammyqc]

I grow both, and don't really notice a difference I guess because of my zone, short season. What about bush plants for people who don't want to trellis? I use cages and bamboo stakes (don't laugh) for det and indets, just cause that's what I have. They all outgrow the cages anyways. I'm going to try the Mr. Bruno's, which is supposed to be smaller, I believe, 3-4 feet?

[Jim]

I'm trying the mr. bruno this year too...3-4 feet would be great.

[houseodessey]

I'd like to know if there are many OP determinates that are recommended. I have lots of space but can't do any more trellising. Is there a good site for this type of info?

[sammyqc]

t-garden.homeip.net/mwiki/index.php/Main_Page

don't know if this helps, but it's an interesting little database project.

[houseodessey]

That's just what I needed. Thanks.

[bluelacedredhead]

You don't notice much difference between determinate and indeterminate tomatoes? Did I miss something??
Sammy, remember that Down said his Mr. Bruno's only grew to about 3 feet tall because they've had a record drought this year down south. If we get a substantial amount of rain here, with 35C+ temperatures, you'll know that there is a difference.

Back in 1998 I believe it was, that was exactly the weather conditions here. I was growing Caspian Pink tomatoes for the second time. The Plants were over 6 feet in height, and the tomatoes were huge!! People were stopping by the farm cuz they'd heard about them via the grapevine. Unfortunately, the rain also caused a lot of mushy, tasteless tomatoes when it continued and the heat faded away.

[Alan]

It depends on what I am going for wether or not I prefer and indeterminate to a determinate. I mulch and allow everything to sprawl so that makes no difference one way or another because I grow such a large amount of tomatoes that staking or caging becomes financially and time cosuming un-resonable.

For early tomatoes to get to market I like determinates because they usually mature earlier and they set their fruit in a pretty concentrated amount of time, meaning that I can get that crop in, harvest it, sale it, and then re-use the ground either for planting more determinate tomatoes for later, planting a new crop, or cover croping. I also of course prefer determinates in the greenhouse because they take up less space and don't demand the kind of pruning and staking attention and room of an indeterminate.

However, I prefer indeterminates for the height of the season for the amount of productivity over a long season and also it is my guess that my customers probably prefer them for taste since the amount of leaf surface area to fruit ratio is in direct responce to the develpment of particular flavors. In short, indeterminates from my experience tend to taste better.

While there is a major difference between determinates and indeterminates (determinates terminate their growing tip into a fruit tress while indeterminates continue to grow upwards and outwards on occassion) sometime determinates seem to act more like indeterminates, a case for example is Celebrity which can be anything from a small bush to a huge vine, depending on any number of variables.

If you want to grow some determinates for your grandmother so she doesn't have to stake, I wouldn't go with celebrity, however you might give the bush celebrity a go, it's a lot more "determinate" than it's cousin. I think that Vermont Bean Seed company still has it available but it appears that Bush Celebrity is being phased out by the indistry which is a shame considering it is very representative of it's more vining cousin in disease tolerance, taste, and productivity, just in a smaller package.

[downinmyback]

Blue according to Mr George Benson who i got Mr Bruno from The three feet or a meter is the normal height. It is a indet. but it stays the size of most deter. My tomatoes were not as big as Mr Benton were but i blame that on the drugth and poor soil i planted them in.I think the reason that most Aussies like it was because of the manageable size , the taste and that it sets flower no matter how hot it gets and it blooms to frost.

[sammyqc]

That's what I had read on GW thread, it's the same tomato right?

When I said I don't notice a difference, I meant more about the production of det versus ind. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head, but I think Clear Pink Early is a det, and it was producing along side Purple Price, and they both produced about the same, and at the same time. By the time fall came along, they were both pretty much done. (Is PP indet? Can't remember, for sure). But of course, they were in my garden, so same conditions right. A friend of mine took a few tomato plants (can't remember which ones) and I don't know what she was feeding them, but they were monsters, and produced like mad, even in our weird summer last year. But they were growing up along side her house, so didn't get the rain out in the open plants were getting, plus they would have been more sheltered from colder nights, etc.

Do you really notice a huge difference in production? Maybe I just don't pay enough attention! Sometimes, I'm so tired and hot by the middle of August, I'm ready to chuck it all.
Plus, you gotta remember, I'm fairly new to the whole heirloom/OP saving seeds thing, so I've got a steep learning curve.

[downinmyback]

Some varieties of determines produce their crop of tomatoes in a short period of time. That is whypeople in my area grow them.There is a vegetable processing plant in the next county and since they process several types of vegetable i would image that they would want all of there tomatoes in like a two week time so they can process other vegetable in season. I know they process green beans, lima beans,sweet corn, turnips greens, carrots and tomatoes there plus other things that i donot know of. There are alot of acres of vegetables grown along beside the Mississippi River as that land is so rich.

[kctomato]

I prefer indet for taste and some ability to "outgrow" some folaige problems

[canadamike]

I almost don't see the point with determinates, since they almost always grow to 5 feet or more in my garden. My 30 Principe Borghese were all over 6 feet high, I had to build a cedar cage over the patch that was 7 feet high, and use rope to let them climb in a more orderly fashion.

I expressed my frustration with them on TVille and Craig LeHoullier wrote me that what I expressed was '' a testament to the uselessness of the determinates''.

I think he agreed!! I will grow dwarfs for small plants, and try bush beefstak. If the latter ends up as tall as the indeterminates, I will forget them forever, and only grow dwarfs for size and canning and indet. for taste and...canning!

[sandbar]

admin said:

... but it appears that Bush Celebrity is being phased out by the indistry which is a shame considering it is very representative of it's more vining cousin in disease tolerance, taste, and productivity, just in a smaller package.

I'm growing this for the first time this year. Did not know it was on the outs ...

Is it possible to grow out a hybrid dwarf and obtain an OP dwarf with similar characteristics as the parent?

[kctomato]

There are some really decent determinates that come out of the campbells/hunts/heinz breeding work.

Rich robust flavors when allowed to fully ripen. They are not "sweet" types but rather rich tomatoey flavored things. They were really made for processing so generally the soluble solids are higher.

Most of these are not out in the public. They have numbers rather than names and would likely have been looked over by others going through seed banks if they didnt know.

Many of them are older lines that date back to the 50-60's.