F1, F2, F3, F4 Tomatoes

[PapaVic]

F1 seeds from 2006 for F1 plants in 2007:

Indian Stripe x Sungold: Crossed in 2006 and produced about 100 seeds. Three or four F1 seedlings look good to go in garden when it warms up. The aroma and shape of the leaves proves the cross was successful as Sungold characteristics are prominent while Indian Stripe is the seed mother.

Brandywine x Neves Azorean Red: Crossed in 2006 and produced about 100 seeds. Sent some to TomTrees. Germinated a few and found them to be regular leaf showing the cross was successful as the mother was Brandywine (potato leaf). Have 3 good seedlings that suffered a little chlorosis but remain healthy enough to go into garden when weather cooperates.

Juane Flammee x Sungold: Crossed in 2006 and produced about 70 seeds. Sent some to Grub in Australia who grew them out in his Southern Hemisphere garden over our winter (his summer) and returned a few F2 seeds from a tomato that shared characteristics of both parents. The F1 sprouts in my 2007 seed trays basically drowned from over watering while I was away in Austin, Texas two weeks ago.

F2s for 2007:

Juane Flammee x Sungold F2: I haven't yet planted the seeds sent back from Australia due to unavailability of correct moon dates for planting since March 26.

Compari F2: Seeds from a grocery store tomato. The sprouts drowned while I was in Austin. May replant at end of April for one or two in containers.

Lemon Boy F2: Same fate. Probably will wait until 2008 to replant these. But may try again since Lemon Boy has been good to me in a container.

Brandy Boy F3: I hadn't planned on planting any more F3s since I collected so many seeds from a great F3 plant last year, but the F4 seedlings still show so much variation in leaf shapes that I'm tempted to revisit the F3 seed.

F4s for 2007:

Brandy Boy F4: Now here some cool stuff ... there are at least four distinct leaf shapes among the five F4 seedlings I currently have. That clearly indicates Brandy Boy is a hybrid and my grow-outs are still segregating. Oh ... not one of the seedlings have yet shown a leaf shape exactly like their mother, which is another reason I may revisit the F3s ... I really liked the mother's leaf shapes.

Crosses I plant to make in 2007:

Mozark x Glamour

Glamour x Mozark

Dixie Golden Giant x Golden Gem

Novikov's Giant x Long Island Seed Project pink dwarf

Brandy Boy F4 x Romeo (giant sausage shaped paste)

Long Island Seed Project yellow dwarf x Galinas

Others as strike my fancy.

For now,

Bill/Papa Vic

[bluelacedredhead]

Bill, someone sent me the link to the Long Island Seed Project!! I'm having a blast reading through it..I'll be back to your post for sure!!!

[Alan]

Hey Bill i've got 10 plants of the indian stripe x sungold growing right now, they are looking good. Let me know if anything really good comes out of the brandyboy segragation as I would like to add one or two to my collection. I had planned on producing brandyboy F2 seed this season, but my brandyboys got burned (fertilizer) to the point of death some how
Good luck.
Hope to see you here on the farm at some point this season.
-Alan

[PapaVic]

Alan,

I had forgotten that I sent you those Indian Stripe x Sungold seeds. Listen, there may be some variation in those plants and fruits even though they're F1 hybrid plants. That's because Sungold F1 is one of the parents and the other parent, Indian Stripe, is a stable open pollinated cultivar. Because Sungold is F1, and heterozygotous, the gene pairs in Sungold may cause different expressions in each of the plants from that cross.

So far, all mine look about the same and smell very oily/spicy like Sungold does. I'm really glad you're growing out more than I am so we can get a good idea whether they will vary and what the variances might be. In any case it should be weird to see the cross between a Cherokee Purple type tomato (Indian Stripe in this case) and a little bitty sweet, fruity gold cherry, huh? Yeah ... I'll be over to visit for sure.

Oh ... and I'm growing Glory hybrid too ... it's rumored to be a cross between Brandywine and Delicious, but I don't have confirmation on that. Anyway, I'll save plenty of seeds and we can find out next year if they F2s throw 25% potato leaf and go from there.

Yeah, you're free to take plenty of Brandy Boy F4 or F5 seeds at the end of this season. I'll be saving them separately from each plant as they seem to have different variations of potato leaf and intermediate potato leaf shapes.

Bill

[johno]

papavic, I'm really happy you've joined us here!

It sounds like you have a BIG garden, could we hear about it?

Fascinating crosses. I look forward to hearing about the progress.

[PapaVic]

Johno,

Thanks for the welcome ... glad to be here.

I have a very small garden at home. Last year I grew about 40 tomato plants here ... 12 against the south wall of the house, 12 in homemade grow bags, 12 in a raised bed between the row of grow bags and the blackberry hedge, and six or so in containers.

Here's a Rose Quartz (on left) and a Sungold (on right) intertwined against
the south wall of the house. They are still young in this photo, and ended up growing
all the way above the eves and loaded up with fruit.


I also grew 60 plants (to start with) in a "seed garden" out behind a friend's construction shop, but weather, birds, rabbits, etc., took their toll and I was left with about 50 healthy plants in that garden where my friend and his wife took many tomatoes and I mainly gathered what I needed for seed.

Here's a photo of my seed garden taken when the plants were still young ... like late June.
The unstaked plants in front are all dwarf types.


The crosses mentioned above were done at home.

This year, because we had to have the exterior foundation of the house treated for termites and ants, I will not be growing tomatoes, peppers, or basil against the south wall of the house anymore. So, I am currently building some new raised beds and plan to augment that with some more homemade grow bags in hope of growing at least 36 plants at home.

Additionally, I farm out tomato plants to friends and grow a few at a rent house we own. I'll be taking pictures of all the plants in all the locations, and will keep you guys posted. Right now I have about 90 good seedlings to split between home and my cowbird gardens with my friends.

I also have another 90 seedlings to pot up today and tomorrow to take to a wetland event this Saturday (Earth Day) to give away mostly to kids. The giveaway tomatoes are the standard types that kids love like cherries and Romas ... and big round red ones for the parents, like Big Beef, Big Boy and Jet Star. Last year we gave away about 200 tomato and pepper plants at the Earth Day event.

Bill

[Jim]

how did the growout do?

[tatermater]

Just reading this thread for the first time.

I seems I am finding more and more places where people are doing what I have been doing my whole life. I wasn't truly aware of how long this forum has been up and running. I find it hard to follow threads that are deep in antiquities, nearly a year on this thread alone.

Bill's crosses and his recoms are reminiscent to part of what I have been doing.

Lemon Boy OP's I have those too
Sungold crosses and OP's ditton
Juane Flammee crosses ditto
Brandywine crosses ditto
Campari OP's ditto
Campari crosses
No Brandy Boys never tried them
Mozark X Glamour crosses made back 30 + yrs ago


Thanks Bill, for reminding me what I have done and how folks are catching up with me lately.

Tom Wagner

[Alan]

I agree, it seems with climate change, threats to genetic diversity, PVP'd material and the huge rise of agribusiness, that folks are definetly getting more and more interested in become adventerous gardeners and plant breeders. All great things!

I'm glad this thread got brought back up to, Papa Vic has some nice projects going on there that have a lot of merit and I would love to keep up with his progress......unfortunately I have bad news Papa Vic.....I lost the indian stripe x sungold to drought unfortunately. If you have some new seed I would like to give it a go again, it was just so dry this year that irrigation definetly became selective within crops.

-alan

[PapaVic]

tatermater said:

I(t) seems I am finding more and more places where people are doing what I have been doing my whole life. Bill's crosses and his recoms are reminiscent to part of what I have been doing. Thanks Bill, for reminding me what I have done and how folks are catching up with me lately.

Tom Wagner

Well, Tom, since all your so far unreleased "recoms" are seemingly locked up in a vault, with nothing apparently forthcoming anytime soon ...

But thanks anyway for the backhanded compliment ... I think.

[tatermater]

Bill,

No back handedness implied!

With the Dwarf project and other recoms going on, I feel left out to say the least. I have been a tease for years, telling folks how to breed tomatoes, what to look for, and the wish list for new and different tomatoes goes on without me.

My only recourse is to hint around about what COULD happen. If you go over to the topic about Sow Organic Seeds, you will understand that I have trepidations about loss of control.

I am working on options daily, listening to folks, and attempting to see how releasing a bunch of varieties is not going to deflate my balloon of seed developments to a meaningless collection of also rans. Hoping I have a few weeks to ascertain events.

Tom

[Jim]

I can't wait to have some experiments to discuss..

[Alan]

We are looking forward to it too Clarkbar, it will be wonderful to have another adventerous, backyard, plant breeding gardener among our ranks! I'm sure you will come up with some great new crosses and information to share!

[lieven]

Hi PapaVic,

I'm into crossing too, so I've got quite a few F1s around. Yes, and Sungold is one of my favourite parents too!
My number one F1 for the past 3 years has been Sungold x Romeo: mostly oval, red, 100 g fruits in trusses of 9 or 10, delicious to eat & very easy to grow.
Unfortunately, F2s etc will have to wait until I've got a 200 m2 greenhouse - that's never, I suppose
But in the meantime, we can swap seeds, say, next fall.

Kindest regards,
Lieven

[PapaVic]

Lieven,

Absolutely, man! Let's trade.

I never would have thought of Sungold x Romeo even though I grow and really like both. Cool.

Well, this thread is way out of date. Many of the planned crosses did not take. Several others that are not mentioned in this thread did take.

I'd be thrilled to swap some F1, F2, and F3 seeds.

Send me an email at [e-mail]

Bill