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Post by Walk on Nov 20, 2011 11:58:46 GMT -5
Another way to increase diversity with small numbers of plants is to mix seed from different years growouts. For instance, if you plant a dozen Maxima squash plants of one variety only and save seed from any of the nicest fruits, then do the same thing the next year using the original seed stock and mix year #2 seed with year #1 seed, you've expanded the number of plants without increasing the size of the planting if space is a constraint. Carol Deppe mentioned this approach in "The Resilient Gardener." Now if you plant from the mix and do another multi-year growout using the mix as your starting material, you should be keeping more diversity instead of just doing an annual selection from a small population.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Nov 20, 2011 14:49:36 GMT -5
Another way to increase diversity with small numbers of plants is to mix seed from different years growouts. For instance, if you plant a dozen Maxima squash plants of one variety only and save seed from any of the nicest fruits, then do the same thing the next year using the original seed stock and mix year #2 seed with year #1 seed, you've expanded the number of plants without increasing the size of the planting if space is a constraint. Carol Deppe mentioned this approach in "The Resilient Gardener." Now if you plant from the mix and do another multi-year growout using the mix as your starting material, you should be keeping more diversity instead of just doing an annual selection from a small population. The problem with this approach, is that it doubles the amount of time required to achieve local adaptation to your garden, since you are not planting your saved annual seeds until the third year. A method that I would prefer is to plant the seeds from the original stock and save seeds from the best growing plants... Then the second year plant the saved seeds, and also plant seeds from the original stock. This increases the number of plants represented in the population while at the same time offering quicker local adaptation. In my garden, I plant last year's seed, and two year old seed, and three year old seed, and original seed (while available). I also plant seeds grown by my neighbors, and new seeds from new sources. In most cases new seeds from new sources, grow much worse in my garden than seeds that have been locally adapted to my garden. My locally adapted landraces always grow as good or better in my garden than the original seed. |
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Post by MikeH on Nov 20, 2011 19:30:54 GMT -5
My strategy, rather than buying fresh seeds, is to swap seeds with the neighbors that are also growing the same variety. That keeps the local adaptation strong, and it widens the genetic base of our crop. I'm generally not opposed to planting seeds from a packet, because they also may widen the genetic base, but I've never had a problem with inbreeding depression in any crop that I've grown. I wonder if it's another of those myths propagated by The Corporation in order to frighten people into buying fresh seeds every year, or in this case at least every other year.... Yep, if you can find neighbours growing the same varieties. From what I can see, Steve Solomon is the antithesis of The Corporation although he was earning his living from Territorial Seeds. I'm not even sure that some of these people are experiencing inbreeding problems. If you keep planting squash on the same land year after year, you're going to deplete some nutrients in the soil and your squash will do more poorly every year. This is true even if you fertilize with N, P and K. Watermelon growers are very aware of this. I've seen corn growers plant corn every year for 10 years and use only N, P and K fertilizers. Eventually when they have problems they realize that the soil is "played out". Yep, but that doesn't apply to Steve Solomon. He's big on annual soil amendment. Regards, Mike |
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Post by paquebot on Nov 20, 2011 21:51:42 GMT -5
I'm not even sure that some of these people are experiencing inbreeding problems. If you keep planting squash on the same land year after year, you're going to deplete some nutrients in the soil and your squash will do more poorly every year. This is true even if you fertilize with N, P and K. Watermelon growers are very aware of this. I've seen corn growers plant corn every year for 10 years and use only N, P and K fertilizers. Eventually when they have problems they realize that the soil is "played out". I know one roadside market who has grown squash and pumpkins on the same ground for at least 50 years and gets more and more harvest each year. In all likelihood, his soil is richer now than when his father started the business. Martin |
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Post by 12540dumont on Nov 20, 2011 22:56:37 GMT -5
Some places people don't have to rotate because they get flooding which renews the soil.
Some folks follow the 7th year fallow of the bible.
I really don't know of any other ways to break the cycles of disease if you don't rotate.
I've had problems when my neighbor grows a mega crop of one item.
Seed saving is sometimes a mystery, always interesting, and sometimes a gamble. Of my favorite seeds, I put some in the freezer/fridge every year. I have 7 years of Naples Long. Of course I only get to keep the seed from the fruit/veges we eat. Sometimes I have to beg for seed from my CSA. So what am I waiting for to plant out all those Naples Long seeds?
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