Wind Turbine

[mnjrutherford]

How many of you heard about the Cash4Clunkeresque financial assistance coming to America? How many of you understood precisely what was said? I heard, I sure as heck did NOT understand. Now, with about 6 hours of research under my belt, I have even less of a clue than I did when I first started out.

HOWever, I did find something I really liked! A vertical axis wind turbine made here in the states. I fell on to Quiet Revolution several years ago.
www.quietrevolution.com/
They are a UK manufacture and the only folks in the game for a long time.

I don't have time to invest in regular searches, but I do try to "brush up" so to speak at least a couple times of year. While I was link hopping, I came across this:
www.mariahpower.com/
Windspire by Mariah Power. This looks pretty good. I'm thinking there must be other vertical axis builders out there as well. What I want to know is, how much are they? To get one from quiet revolution would have cost around $10 grand. Building one ourselves is beyond our skill levels. Buying is going to be our best option ASSUMING we can afford it. Tax credits won't do us any good either because we don't make enough to file.

ALSO, regarding photovoltaics... there is an NC company that just pushed the envelop with miniaturization increasing power creation and minimizing costs. I've shot them a snail mail asking them if they might consider selling to me. Maybe they would trade PV for hand knitted socks? Here is their link:
www.semprius.com/

SO, whaddya tink folks?

[sandbar]

Interesting post, MJ. Had never seen this turbine before. I like that it is only 30' high, thereby making it less obtrusive in the landscape. However, that might be it's biggest weakness.

I noticed that the minimum average windspeed requirement is 12 mph. At a height of only 30', that eliminates the entire state of Ohio. In my area (north-central Ohio), our average windspeed is over 12 mph ... at a height of 100 meters! It is less than that at 50 meters and at ground level, we are around 5 mph.

So, even though our farm seems to be a windy place, we wouldn't be able to deploy any wind mills/turbines ... *sigh*.

Plus, any self-respecting Buckeye would have severe problems buying anything made in "that state up north."

[woodchuck]

Being someone who relies almost totally on wind power, I spot lots of red flags at those sites!!!!

Without going off into a total rant, just consider the price of the first.

"Our qr5 turbine is rated at 4.2kW @ 25mph, produces around 3,000-8,000kWh a year and is expected to cost around £38,000 GBP plus installation."

$57,000 US Dollars to produce 4.2 KW at 25 miles per hour!!??
That's ludicrous!!!!

I've built many a 700 Watt @ 25 MPH turbine for about $500.....LOL

www.scoraigwind.com/

www.otherpower.com/

<Woodchuck>

[mnjrutherford]

Thanks Woodchuck! I appreciate your input on this. I agree the price is aggressive to say the least. On the other hand, I like the vertical technology because it's less obtrusive than the giant blades of the horizontal models. I don't know about other areas, but in the Altamont Pass farms, the horizontals have played hell with the raptor populations. Additionally, you could put a lot more verticals in less space than horizontals. That would be another plus.

The Mariah models are even more space and cost efficient (to my ignorant eye at least). While I would like to THINK we are capable of building our own, when it gets down to brass tacks, I think that is really somewhat beyond us at this point.

I sure would like to hear what you have to say about the Mariah Power turbines and prices.

[mnjrutherford]

So you have issues with "Nawthunus" too huh? The folks here in NORTH Carolina are good people, but they don't know hushpuppies from holes in the wall! ;D

You're talking about the Mariah turbines right? I hear what you're saying about being unable to collect higher winds with their models. That would make that style untenable in your situation. The QR models (though very expensive as WoodChuck points out) can easily be taken to greater heights, but would they be high enough?

I would like to be able to have both PV AND wind AND water power. If you could garner a little of everything, I don't think that there would ever pass a moment where you would not have enough at any given moment. That would also mean that you wouldn't need to harvest a whole lot from any given source.

In that scenario, would you be able to use a shorter turbine to good advantage?

[woodchuck]

Mar 1, 2010 9:15:56 GMT -5 mnjrutherford said:

Thanks Woodchuck! I appreciate your input on this. I agree the price is aggressive to say the least. On the other hand, I like the vertical technology because it's less obtrusive than the giant blades of the horizontal models. I don't know about other areas, but in the Altamont Pass farms, the horizontals have played hell with the raptor populations. Additionally, you could put a lot more verticals in less space than horizontals. That would be another plus.

The Mariah models are even more space and cost efficient (to my ignorant eye at least). While I would like to THINK we are capable of building our own, when it gets down to brass tacks, I think that is really somewhat beyond us at this point.

I sure would like to hear what you have to say about the Mariah Power turbines and prices.

I don't see why they would be less of a danger to wildlife than a horizontal turbine, given an equal swept area.
Any spinning blade is a potential danger.

More verticals in less space than horizontals?

While it's possible to put several smaller turbines in place of one big one, there's only a certain amount of usable wind energy in any given area. See Betz Law. Turbulence is also an issue.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betz%27_law

A turbine only 30 feet off the ground?

Any low wind turbine should be looked at with suspicion and caution.

The power output from a wind turbine rises as a cube of wind speed. In other words, if wind speed doubles, the power output increases eight times.

Wind speed increases as the height from the ground increases.

<Woodchuck>

[mnjrutherford]

Mar 1, 2010 11:54:05 GMT -5 woodchuck said:

Mar 1, 2010 9:15:56 GMT -5 mnjrutherford said:

I don't know about other areas, but in the Altamont Pass farms, the horizontals have played hell with the raptor populations. Additionally, you could put a lot more verticals in less space than horizontals. That would be another plus.

I don't see why they would be less of a danger to wildlife than a horizontal turbine, given an equal swept area.
Any spinning blade is a potential danger.

More verticals in less space than horizontals?

While it's possible to put several smaller turbines in place of one big one, there's only a certain amount of usable wind energy in any given area. See Betz Law. Turbulence is also an issue.

Danger to wildlife: Well, as I understand it, the whirling blades of the horizontal axis windmill, become invisible at high speed. Therefore, birds, and apparently raptors in particular, are susceptible to flying through rather than around and get turned into hawk burger. On the other hand, the blades of the vertical axis models form a "solid wall" at higher speeds. Birds can see them and fly around them. For Quiet Revolution, that was a marketing point because the edges of the blades could be "painted" in such a way that when they were in motion, they were also advertising billboards.

More power from less space: A VA windmill is shaped rather like a pencil so it takes less area than the plate shaped area used by the HA model. So wouldn't that work under Betz Law?

As for turbulence... you've already passed my technology levels with Betz! You are doing a great job of explaining it in a way I can understand it though. I really appreciate your help!

[Joseph Lofthouse]

To put things in perspective regarding
the Altamont Pass wind farm: "According to the most recent data, wind operations in the Altamont Pass kill approximately 7,300 to 9,600 birds each year"
www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2010-02-04/article/34602

The population of birds that live in the Altamont Pass Wind Farm is something like
650,000 birds, and about 3/4 of them are expected to die of natural causes each year
so that's around a half million birds dying naturally at the wind farm every year.
It's intriguing that so few of the corpses end up in the wind equipment.

Regards,
Joseph

[mnjrutherford]

Interesting article Joseph. I really appreciate you putting it before us. I was under the impression that significantly more birds were being killed. Do you have any additional information comparing bird kill from the different types of windmill?