|
|
Post by jonnyyuma on Jul 19, 2010 20:49:10 GMT -5
Hello,
I tried to get some cuttings of tetraploids that I saw in local fields of seedless watermelons, but they all died. I saved some seed from the fruit as well and will grow out a small sample of it to see if it was a self or a cross. Self will be 4n and cross will be 3n.
Jonny
|
|
|
|
Post by terracotta on Feb 18, 2012 13:39:42 GMT -5
any thoughts on a variety of watermelon to be chromosome doubled? doubling reduces male fertility so one that grow many male flowers would be a plus to begin with. current varieties I have crimson sweet (lots of info on how it would look so better ID of tetraploidy) allsweet (The third highest lycopene content and a pollinator) kleckly sweet sugar baby (already done by someone else with poor results) orangeglo blacktail mountain some kind of bush type (low germination and vigor for me but if someone else wants to run with it go ahead it would generate more seedless melons per acre which is what people are trying to do with pollinator varieties) I do not endorse the use of Colchicine and think extremely toxic and carcinogenic substance like this should not be used. www.scholarchemistry.com/msds/Colchicine_206.00.pdfany alternatives besides this I am happy to hear |
|
|
|
Post by raymondo on Feb 18, 2012 14:21:06 GMT -5
Any chemical that can induce doubling of ploidy has got to be reasonably unpleasant I would have thought. It's a matter of bad versus really bad. Joseph was using a herbicide, can't remember its name, which is less nasty than colchicine but still quite an unpleasant chemical.
Physical damage can sometimes lead to doubling of ploidy but that's a rather hit and miss affair, if you'll pardon the rather poor pun.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 18, 2012 14:30:28 GMT -5
The MSDS you linked to says "Material has not been found to be a carcinogen..." It's danger in small doses is to developing fetuses because it is a teratogen; causing birth defects. And in larger doses it is poisonous. |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 18, 2012 14:32:58 GMT -5
Joseph was using a herbicide, can't remember its name, which is less nasty than colchicine but still quite an unpleasant chemical. Oryzalin is a commonly available and less dangerous alternative to colchicine. |
|
|
|
Post by Wood-N-Stake on Feb 18, 2012 19:14:42 GMT -5
The seed world is full of diploid and triploid watermelon. The Asian seed companies have a huge selection. Only problem is getting the seeds into the USA. The Asian market demand for melon seems much higher thane the US. Their solution to production seems to be heading toward grafting. I would tend to agree with grafting. It is new for cucurbits, but, not a new solution for fruit production.
Super cool would be a perennial root stock to graft to. The current procedure is to start the root stock 7 - 10 days before the graft stock. Having an established root stock would really boost survival and production.
|
|
|
|
Post by terracotta on Feb 19, 2012 16:20:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by terracotta on Feb 20, 2012 14:26:21 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 20, 2012 17:55:52 GMT -5
Oryzalin is a "safer" alternative ( remember the dose makes the poison). I found a better one, nitrous oxide, although it needs a air tight container Much safer. So I get a pressure chamber, and heat it to 90F, and pressurize it to 90 psi with nitrous oxide, and germinate some watermelon seeds inside? |
|
|
|
Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 20, 2012 20:15:40 GMT -5
Much safer. So I get a pressure chamber, and heat it to 90F, and pressurize it to 90 psi with nitrous oxide, and germinate some watermelon seeds inside? wouldn't you want to have some CO2 in the chamber as well? Otherwise wouldn't the seedlings die of suffocation? |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 20, 2012 22:37:50 GMT -5
wouldn't you want to have some CO2 in the chamber as well? Otherwise wouldn't the seedlings die of suffocation? Treatment typically lasts 24 to 48 hours... The concentration of air to laughing gas is often around 1:4 to 1:7. |
|
|
|
Post by terracotta on Feb 21, 2012 14:57:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by terracotta on Mar 3, 2012 15:11:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by terracotta on Apr 22, 2012 12:52:15 GMT -5
|
|
jim
grub
Posts: 75
|
Post by jim on Apr 28, 2012 0:37:13 GMT -5
Hi All
This is a very interesting topic.
I have contemplated doing some conversions myself. I think that Surflan has also been used to induce polyploidy. Colchicine is not a good idea for people to work with unless they have proper equipment and use proper protection. Orazylin and Surflan are both herbicides, while certainly not safe, are probably much safer to work with than colchicine.
Polyploids aren't all less productive, many of our crop plants are polyploid...potato-4N, strawberry 8N, wheat 6N, the list goes on....each species has its own quirks and adaptations making it difficult to generalize about polyploids.
And...all those Phalaenopsis (orchids) you find at "Trader Joe's" are tetraploids....
Jim
|
|
