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Post by canadamike on Apr 5, 2010 10:13:21 GMT -5
Garbanzoz need another type of innoculant,I think. The innoculant sold in the store might be fine though, I dunno, since the new innoculant they sell today are mixes for many species.
The do not have to be expensive MJ, you could make a tea then spread it. Anyway, a lil bag of powder cover 5 pounds of seeds.... for a couple of $$
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 5, 2010 11:02:29 GMT -5
OK... sounds good. Since we've already put them in the ground, I'm thinking "go for it as is" this year. Observe and record the results. Make adjustments as deemed necessary next season. Sound prudent to you?
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Post by mjc on Apr 5, 2010 11:31:13 GMT -5
Once you get the various innoculants (for the different legume species) in the ground, they will stick around for a while, as long as you don't do something to the soil that will kill them (heavy pesticide usage, etc) and grow legumes in that area, regularly.
One of the easiest ways to get them going is to use an 'all purpose' legume innoculant and make a tea out of it (spike the tea with a little molasses and let it sit a few hours to overnight) then water the whole plot. One of the little packs, will make several gallons of spiked tea...something like five or so.
Also, biochar may help keep them happy longer...like it does for other soil microbes.
Remember a legume without the innoculant is a nitrogen 'user' not supplier.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 5, 2010 14:06:23 GMT -5
ok... so, we don't use pesticides... well, outside of dishsoap and water... we haven't grown legumes in that area at all. We did TRY to grow peas and peanuts on the other side of the plot, about 10' to 20' away. The peas did lousy but the peanuts did ok.
I tell you what, anybody who dares to think that they know what they are about when they hit middle age has earned their ticket to the graveyard. I feel like a schoolkid getting into stuff like this!
This year we have added lime and wood ash from the fireplace to this particular plot. Everything you guys say make me more interested in seeing just how this all plays out at the end.
By the by, the green peas are in a whole different plot on the far side of the house. That plot was treated with lime last year but not much was added to it this year. So far the peas are going gang busters. I planted a whole row of generic peas on March 5th and they are about 6" to 10" so far. I planted my special peas (Mattar - Rebel - Fin du Gourmet - Sugaree - Golden Sweet - Batchelor Bigga - Bishops Grey - Triple Treat) on March 23. The Bishops Grey came up first and so far appear to be quite vigorous. The other's are all popping out as well with what appears to be fairly decent germination rate. The exception may be the Mattar, a Pakistan pea from GRIN which has only 2 of the seed planted sprouting. By the by, I soaked all the "special" peas overnight before planting them.
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Post by wildseed57 on Apr 7, 2010 20:54:55 GMT -5
If each type of legume, needs a differnt type of rhizobium, then I'm out of luck using a type thats not labled for peas and beans, so it looks like I will be using the expensive stuff.
i'm raising the hight of my beds another foot to make it a bit easier to harvest some of what I grow because I'm disabled and have some health problems, also with them a foot deeper the plants will have a better root system. The soil under them is really bad as it is mostly clay and doesn't drain well. In fact when it rains the back yard where the garden is gets flooded from the surounding area and a flat garden would just get washed out. I'm looking forward to be able to grow enough this year to start putting up food for the winter like I use to, before I got hurt and the bank took my small farm. Anyway I'm trying different types of peas along with growing different colored pea pods to add some color to the garden. Once I get some perminate beds for the peas I won't have about the inoculant and the two fifteen foot beds will grow a lot of peas and beans, more than I grew last year by a long shot.
George W. Z5-6 MO. USA
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Post by galina on Apr 8, 2010 4:15:26 GMT -5
wildseed57
After all you had to go through, this new start sounds so positive. Gardening on top of clay will also hold in water and make watering last longer, apart from being easier to work a raised bed. Clay isn't all bad but it is just so hard to work. May I wish you a lot of success.
Yes multicoloured peas are very pretty in flower: white, two-tone purple, salmon pink and the purple and yellow pods also look good later.
Good growing and good harvests.
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Post by wildseed57 on Apr 10, 2010 0:52:16 GMT -5
 hi I know this might sound stupid, but while I'm at it I was wondering if the majority of the Pisum Sativum are edible? what I mean is, are the varieties like P. sativum var arvense and P. sativum subsp. abyssinicum considered edible? I got sent both of these along with the P. sativum varieties that I was able to get. Also if they are edible do the have a agreeable taste to them or are they bitter? Last year was the first year of many that I have tried growing peas, prier to that I have very little success with them even though I babied them more than any of my other vegetables, so its like something happened that improved the way they grew and the only thing i could come up with was I went to raised beds, but I have seen others grow them in a flat garden just as I have and had little luck with them growing also. so I'm guessing that maybe the weather had something to do with it. At any rate I sure hope that this year is as good as last year. Getting back to my first question the reason why I asked is that the P.sativum subsp. abyssinicum has attractive small black pea seeds which look like they might be worth growing. The P. sativum var arvense has small pea seeds that are a mix of greenish and with tiny spots and some are brownish black I pretty much expect them to taste as bad as they look, but hopefully not toxic. I'm still learning about the species and which ones might have more sugar or sweetness to them, I think I read some where, that if they are flat and wrinkled they are sweeter than the ones that are round and smooth is this right or does it just depend on the pea variety? George W.
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Post by grunt on Apr 10, 2010 4:59:03 GMT -5
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 10, 2010 7:55:08 GMT -5
Hey Dan! Might be just my computer but when I went to those links I got a blank sheet with a GRIN header. Is there a PI number attached to them that I could use to do an alternative search?
I like your questions WildSeed. I have trouble growing mine as well though I don't know if we have the same base issues. I've also been learning about the edibility of certain varieties. I've been focused on "Sweet Peas" which are a spring and early summer cutting flower in our garden. My grandmother grew them for me when I was little but we never ate them, she told me the were poisonous. Last year I found some references to the poisons they contain. Not a instant death type, but certainly not something you want to eat on a regular basis.
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Post by galina on Apr 10, 2010 9:16:55 GMT -5
Pisum sat arvense is just the ordinary field pea. Most definitely edible, but not as sweet as some. The Plants for a Future database has an entry: www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Pisum+sativum+arvenseThis is the original medieval pea, purple flowered and sometimes brown seeded. Much bred and improved in the last century between the wars in The Netherlands. Often described as soup pea. Very meaty and popular during fast times when meat was not eaten. Capucijn peas are arvense. I am not familiar with abyssinicum and hope to learn about these. |
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Post by grunt on Apr 10, 2010 12:54:42 GMT -5
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 10, 2010 13:12:45 GMT -5
Thanks Dan! I appreciate it! ;D I can never be sure that it isn't me.   MODIFICATION: WoW!  The GRIN site never ceases to amaze me! I'm really looking forward to giving feedback on the items I'm growing from them. Some good, some bad... The garlic is doing beautifully. I'm also hoping to make some new requests for material as well. This time I won't be frantic with excitement and I already have some ideas for narrowing my requests to more needed materials. Particular for the fruit and nut trees. The pears really pooped out on me. I'll make that request again in a couple of years. I'll also be using a different grafting method when I do. This has nothing to do with peas at this point so I'll shut up now.  |
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Post by galina on Apr 11, 2010 17:28:14 GMT -5
Thank you Grunt, there are some amazing photos on the site you quoted. Some of these abyssinicum peas are fully black, others grey or dark grey brown. What a good idea to have a colour sample pane next to the photo of the seeds.
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Post by robertb on Apr 15, 2010 13:41:37 GMT -5
They'll encourage any bacteria which are there already, and increase the quantity for next year. If you only get miserable little things, you'll know them missed their bugs.
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Post by Rebsie on Apr 15, 2010 14:27:54 GMT -5
Lots of good advice being offered here!
George, to answer your question about coloured peas keeping their colour when cooked, I'm afraid they don't. Purple pods in peas are made by the same pigment (anthocyanin) as in beans, so they go the same way. Anthocyanin is water soluble, and it is simply a pigment on the surface of the pod. Purple pods are, if you look closely, green pods with a layer of purple over the top. If you steam them very very lightly instead of boiling them, you might just keep a bit of colour!
Yellow pods are a different matter - the yellow is caused by a 'faulty' gene which fails to produce the normal green. As it's genetic and not made by a colour pigment on the surface, the pod is yellow all the way through and will thus keep its colour when cooked.
To reiterate what others have said, you don't need inoculant if you've either used it before or grown peas before. The effect of adding more will be negligible. The cheapest and quickest way to 'inoculate' a fresh patch of ground is to transfer a couple of spadefuls of soil from a place where peas were previously grown. The rhizobia thrive in the soil for years, and even a small transfer of soil is enough to set them off. If in doubt, have a look at the roots of your peas. If they have any nodules growing on them, then your rhizobium situation is fine and dandy.
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hi I know this might sound stupid, but while I'm at it I was wondering if the majority of the Pisum Sativum are edible? what I mean is, are the varieties like P. sativum var arvense and P. sativum subsp. abyssinicum considered edible? I got sent both of these along with the P. sativum varieties that I was able to get. 
The GRIN site never ceases to amaze me! I'm really looking forward to giving feedback on the items I'm growing from them. Some good, some bad... The garlic is doing beautifully. I'm also hoping to make some new requests for material as well. This time I won't be frantic with excitement and I already have some ideas for narrowing my requests to more needed materials. Particular for the fruit and nut trees. The pears really pooped out on me. I'll make that request again in a couple of years. I'll also be using a different grafting method when I do. This has nothing to do with peas at this point so I'll shut up now. 
