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Post by jonnyyuma on Apr 11, 2010 13:27:59 GMT -5
I must say Hristo, you got me to thinking about this. I got on the phone with a friend that works in Onion (they use haploids like crazy due to generation time on onion) and we discussed this XX and XY issue (like in Asparagus). If I understoond correctly you can have nearly isogeneic lines and make haploids or make haploids of females. Or you can induce the male to fruit and induce haploids from that. I don't understand the concept on inducing XY males to fruit. I have attached an article I found after I got off the phone. Jonny Attachments:
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Post by nuts on Apr 11, 2010 16:46:32 GMT -5
What makes you think it is worth Mule's time to educate you? That is your job and your problem. Mule is a plant breeder with an education in plant breeding and tomatoes specifically. Jonnyyuma is also a plant breeder with a background in plant breeding and melons in particular. Each of them paid the price of getting an education. I grow and sell tomato and pepper plants. Would you care to guess how many calls I get from people who want to know how to produce tomato and pepper plants in their own greenhouse? So far, I've given them good information to the best of my ability but it is frustrating. I paid the price of learning how to do the job. Why should I take my hard earned knowledge and give it away to someone who won't understand. They will not have had the experience of losing 5000 plants in one night because the heat failed and the greenhouse got too cold. Lesson learned - have a backup heat source and a temperature alarm in the greenhouse. DarJones fusionpower, you didn't answer to my statement that you could get the 531,441 combinations from selfpollination. Maybe you want me to pay you for the "education"? Well,let me say this,you don't know anything about my education and I don't care about yours. On this board we're talking equal to equal. |
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Post by Hristo on Apr 11, 2010 17:16:46 GMT -5
Jonny, thanks a lot for the Nature's article. I'm not pro breeder too, just for fun (still). My formal education is agro economics. My knowledge about genetics is at basic level, that is why I'm mostly guessing and asking questions. Back to the topic:
In short I understood this:
By manipulating a single centromere protein they can create haploid-inducing line. When this line is crossed with usual variety - seeds will be produced. All these seeds are planted. Many of them will not be viable. Among the viable ones 25-45% will be haploids (as fusionpower noted there will be only chromosomes from the usual variety) - in case the haploid-inducing line is used as mother, or less than 10% when used as father. Rest of the viable seeds will be diploids and aneuploids. They spot the haploid plants (in the case with Arabidopsis thaliana the haploid plants are smaller). Then double their chromosome number (probably through treating the tips with colchicine). Later the plants will flower, then you can self them and you will have new homozygous line/variety, and/or you can cross them with other homozygous line/variety and you have new F1 variety.
If this works and is as easy as it looks now... WOW!!! Even only one haploid-inducing line for each species will be enough for so much breeding. One of the first things I think about is how fast will be to create homozygous plants of trees and cross them to get real F1's. In some species it can take hundreds of years utill you can get F6/F7/F8. I wonder how many of the fruit trees will experience heterosis comparable to the corn heterosis. And so on...
WOW, so much opportunities and fun... if it works so good and so easy as it looks now when it is on paper....
If this works these scientists deserve FAO Food Price (there is no Nobel Prize in Biology)
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 11, 2010 17:45:29 GMT -5
Jo: I hear you about learning. The best way to learn is to teach. Yep, teaching, wise discourse, mentoring, enlightenment... All aspects of learning and preserving the knowledge that we hold precious and dear. I've read a bit about Plato and Socrates and the teaching methods they employed so successfully to elucidate those who were fortunate enough to avail themselves of their wise counsel. In this day and age, we are to frequently subjected to dunderheaded fools on both the teaching and the learning side of things. |
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Post by Hristo on Apr 11, 2010 18:21:14 GMT -5
About the XY issue. If Arabidopsis thaliana has no separate sexes, probably they can't answer you that question. But even if it not work well (if at all) with such plants, this is not such a big deal considering the ratio of XX vs. XY species/plants.
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