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Post by Hristo on Jun 5, 2010 16:00:40 GMT -5
Why this obviously useful tree is so obscure?
The temps in my area during winter are too low to grow Laurus nobilis, so when I heard about Umbellularia californica, decided to give it a try in case it's hardy enough. Since then I have managed to find only one seed source... a german site (as expected the seeds didn't germinated)! Now I wonder why this tree is so obscure/unpopular? Any thoughts?
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Post by atash on Jun 5, 2010 20:37:49 GMT -5
It is very common in the western USA, where it is native. It is not native as far north as I am, but occurs as far north as 44N on the Oregon coast. It occurs both in coastal forests, and in inland woods on the Sierra Nevada. I would guess trees in the Sierra Nevada might be slightly coldhardier as they come from a significantly colder climate.
It occurs in my city in cultivation. There are some large specimens near Starbucks' HQ, and numerous trees in the local arboretum where it is somewhat weedy, spreading aggressively by self-sown seeds.
It is commonly grown as a substitute for Lauris Nobilis, and in fact probably all Bay Leaves produced in the USA are from this tree instead of the Grecian Laurel, because it is so much easier to grow. It contains more of the essential oils than its Grecian counterpart, so much so that some people get headaches from it. It is not picky about soil, probably prefers mildly acidic soil but occurs naturally in alkaline as well, and grows in sun or shade. Even fairly deep, dry shade.
I do not know when its seeds are ripe, but keep reminding me later in the year to look for them.
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Post by stevil on Jun 6, 2010 1:56:59 GMT -5
Why this obviously useful tree is so obscure? The temps in my area during winter are too low to grow Laurus nobilis, so when I heard about Umbellularia californica, decided to give it a try in case it's hardy enough. Since then I have managed to find only one seed source... a german site (as expected the seeds didn't germinated)! Now I wonder why this tree is so obscure/unpopular? Any thoughts? Good question, but there are many examples of this phenomenon, apparently useful plants ignored. Off the top of my head here are two: Why on earth have Broad Beans never been cultivated apart from for animals in Norway despite the fact that they are extremely easy to grow and little affected by pests. Why is one of the two most popular Greek herbs (used for herb tea), Sideritis syriaca, never seen in Herb Gardens (it's hardy enough as it's just survived -24C in my garden). There are many more. Mysteries of life. Umbellularia californica - I've also failed from seed (perhaps they came from you, Hristo?). There's a big tree in central London (at the Chelsea Physic Garden), see below and Kew Gardens also has a good sized tree:   Atash: remember me too when those seed are ready  |
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Post by Hristo on Jun 6, 2010 4:43:48 GMT -5
Thanks a lot Atash! Stephen - indeed, but as Atash said it's quite abundant and used and still nearly no one sells seeds. This probably is the most extreme case I know of, considering how many US seed sellers exist. Probably one of the reasons is that as I read the seeds stay viable for short time (but as we know this doesn't stop most sellers). Also there is a phenomenon that people do not pay attention to the plants growing around them (i.e. they look only at the horizon and not looking at their feet - like I was  . BTW the seeds were not from me. P. S. Sideritis syriaca is known here as Crimean tea. I do not know why Crimean!? But here Sideritis scandica is much more popular, called Pirin mountain tea, aka Mursalski tea (Pirinski chai/Mursalski chai). I never tried the tea, nor I have plants! |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 6, 2010 6:44:59 GMT -5
I want a bay laurel tree as well but I don't think u. California is the proper variety for the east coast. I'm am also newly on the hunt for culinary quality juniper.
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Post by atash on Jun 6, 2010 13:13:05 GMT -5
This tree occurs in a variety of habitats, mostly coastal and mild but also inland with severe temperature swings, and according to a web page I found, it hits -25F (roughly -31.7C) in the most extreme of its range.
Is that coldhardy enough for your purposes? Amazing for a broadleaved evergreen--especially one that big, that can't "hide" under shelter of taller things or against the ground.
If the seed has short viability, that implies I should be ready when it ripens. I'd better figure out when that is.
MNJRutherford, I don't know if it is suitable for eastern USA or not, but the problem with many western natives in the southeastern USA is lack of enough resistance to certain diseases that occur in your climate but less so out here. I already went through a time in my life when I would send local natives and southern hemisphere natives coveted by folks in the southeast, and they would report that they died shortly after arrival. I could not figure out what the problem was, until I realized that there are diseases common in hot, humid climates, that are less virulent here. It seems to be mutual, as some plants that thrive in eastern USA rot in our wet winters.
The tolerances of this particular tree are surprisingly wide, and it is quite vigorous, so if disease doesn't get it, it would probably work.
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Post by qahtan on Jun 6, 2010 15:03:19 GMT -5
I have a Laurus Nobilis plant that is now 20 plus years old. I have it as a house plant int the winter and outside on the deck in the summer, in fact it went out on the deck 2 days ago while we were having a good rain..........
Of course it is too cold outside in the winter but mine is doing OK the way I do it...
The picture of the large tree above looks to me like California Bay, really nothing atall like Laurus Nobilis...................qahtan
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Post by Hristo on Jun 7, 2010 8:05:31 GMT -5
-31C is more than enough for me. In my local area rarely gets below -23C. Indeed, it's amaizingly hardy for big broadleaved evergreen tree. I'm not much in to the ornamentals and I can not think of a similar species.
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Post by synergy on Jan 22, 2011 0:20:19 GMT -5
Coastal British Columbia, Canada zone 7 I have had a culinary bay laurel I nursed for years indoors as a small sapling that has now grown outdoors 15 years to being 12 feet high . It has survived minus 20 c with no setbacks.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 22, 2011 8:05:24 GMT -5
Why this obviously useful tree is so obscure? The temps in my area during winter are too low to grow Laurus nobilis, so when I heard about Umbellularia californica, decided to give it a try in case it's hardy enough. Since then I have managed to find only one seed source... a german site (as expected the seeds didn't germinated)! Now I wonder why this tree is so obscure/unpopular? Any thoughts? Good question, but there are many examples of this phenomenon, apparently useful plants ignored. Off the top of my head here are two: Why on earth have Broad Beans never been cultivated apart from for animals in Norway despite the fact that they are extremely easy to grow and little affected by pests. Why is one of the two most popular Greek herbs (used for herb tea), Sideritis syriaca, never seen in Herb Gardens (it's hardy enough as it's just survived -24C in my garden). There are many more. Mysteries of life. I've somtimes felt the same about Japanese Raisin Tree ( Hovenia dulcis) and Yellowhorn ( Xanthoceras sorbifolium). I know the former can grow around me more or less (the Bronx Botainical Garden has an enormous one) and I think the latter is similarly versitile. Plus it has large attractive flowers (not common among trees that can grow around me and edible seeds/nuts) |
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Post by mjc on Jan 22, 2011 8:39:40 GMT -5
My wife's family lived in Nevada county, CA, before moving back East...there was tons (literally) of U. californica on their land. Yes, we did have some growing, for a couple of years, here in WV...until Feb of 1994...and a bout of 40F below temps (if the thermometer were any longer, we'd still be frozen solid).
If I recall, it sets seeds in mid to late summer/early autumn.
As to germination...some observations...yes, in its native/near native environment, it can be very weedy. It seems to germinate readily, you can often find 50 to over 100 seedlings sprouting under the parent plant. It will form thickets if left to its own devices. But, it also seems that most of the seedlings are up in the early to mid spring...so stratification is probably in order. Scarifying the seeds would probably be a very good idea...sandpaper/shake in a bag of rough gravel type, not cutting/cracking type.
It tends to stay bushy/shrub like when crowded in a thicket. It can be pruned easily to just about any form...
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Post by steev on Sept 6, 2011 19:44:57 GMT -5
Like other trees native to California, various oaks and buckeye, for example, U. californica has a large, stachy seed that first throws a vigorous taproot. The trees, when tall, don't particularly mind falling over when stream-eroded; they generally go on growing vigorously from a slanted or horizontal trunk as a line of vertical limb-trunks. They've been cited as a common alternate host for Sudden Oak Death, which seems not to much affect them. Some indigenous tribes of California roasted the seeds of bay for food. The wood is often used for turnings such as bowls, labelled "Oregon Myrtle". If you have trouble sprouting the seeds, I can only suppose they're too old or you're treating them too kindly, since around here, they grow like weeds.
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 7, 2011 11:51:31 GMT -5
The sudden oak death attached to the CA Bay Laurel was all traced back to one nursery who was importing stock from China. Too late, Pandora's out of the box. I have a CA Laurel in my yard that we planted 20 years ago. It blooms but so far has not made any seed. Leo haunts the creeks of the SF Bay area doing restoration, I'll ask him to keep an eye out for seed. Attachments:
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Post by olddog on Sept 8, 2011 17:05:35 GMT -5
The sudden oak death disease has only been found in the coastal fog belt of California, and Oregon.(so far), I believe as the organism that causes it, spreads only via liquid water, can't remember the name, Phytophthora something, I think?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 21:59:23 GMT -5
Wish I could find it. Maybe 2700ft is too high and dry.
Does this grow from cuttings?
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