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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 28, 2010 8:23:52 GMT -5
We have a property we want to buy. It has an orchard on it, a black walnut grove, a 40L producing maple sugar bush (sounds like a bit of work but heck, fun), a huge garden though I think I'll have to regenerate it a bit, massive asparagus plantation. Anyhow, I love it BUT:
It looks like is situated on an old sand bank (glacially derived?) as the soil varies in texture with a predominance of coarse sand or finer sand with a bit of silt. There are patches of clay as you move outward away from the sand bank. There is some gravel mixed in but the soil is not that rocky. The sugar bush is on a metamorphic outcrop so it is not agricultural leaving 12 acres that could be worked but is mostly a tree plantation at the moment. 3 acres are cleared.
I don't mind working sandy soil especially as his orchards and vegetable patches seem to be thriving. It would take a lot of work to get the organic matter up though. My issue is that there well doesn't appear to be very high producing. It only runs at 3gpm though we haven't gotten a chance to measure the depth of well and water level yet.
Especially initially, I can see this garden as being water intensive. I don't generally water much with the exception of drought and seed beds but still this is sharply draining soil.
Thoughts?
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Post by mjc on Jul 28, 2010 10:13:17 GMT -5
Is that the actual rate of the well? How was it measured?
Yes, you really need to find the depth of the well...to figure out how much water is stored in the well (any additional storage in the house?)
3 isn't too bad, especially if the well is deep enough to be able to hold a decent reserve, or there are additional storage tanks in the house.
As to the garden, where is it located in relation to buildings?
A rain water collection system would go a long way to help keep down well usage for the garden, if it is close enough to a building to make it practical.
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Post by plantsnobin on Jul 28, 2010 11:17:59 GMT -5
Ah, wells. My grandfather was a well driller, so was my father, his brother, my cousin. My dad died when I was five, but I do remember being at the sites when he drilled. I especially remember the time I threw a Pepsi bottle down one while he was drilling-I didn't get beaten for it, but I do remember it was a problem for him. Sorry for the trip down memory lane there. Anyway, in the US drillers have to keep well logs, don't know if you have any thing similar in Canada. Copies are sent in to the state, and the driller keeps a copy. They describe the soil composition, depth, rate of flow, etc. I still have my dads copies from 50 years ago. 3 gals a minute is not much flow. But if the plants that are already there are doing well, maybe it won't be an issue. I'm glad you found something you like! I know you have looked at a lot of properties and it really can be hard to find something that feels like home. Good luck, I hope everything turns out ok.
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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 28, 2010 12:10:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm hoping that it has a descent resevoire. They do collect rain water in barrels, and I would almost certainly expand upon that. I would also be interested in installing a storage tank. My issue is whether or not there is enough water to begin with. The water guy was talking about digging another well but if it is drawing from the same aquifer... Apparently there are two aquifers in the area, one shallow and one really deep. There are two wells on the property already. The shallow one produces the 3gpm. The deep one produces 1gpm and is not very good quality.
Sigh. Sigh. Double sigh.
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Post by grunt on Jul 28, 2010 13:19:56 GMT -5
Telsing: Find out if the present rate is what it has always produced, or if it used to be substantially higher. If it used to be higher, it may be that it just needs rejuvenation. I have a vague memory from something like 60 years ago, of dry ice being dropped down a well hole to "bring back the flow", and getting an ice cold glass of sparkling water when the job was done. It was apparently an old timers trick to loosen up compaction around the sand point. Maybe you've heard of it Karen?
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Post by mjc on Jul 28, 2010 13:37:02 GMT -5
3 gpm is really enough for regular household use...that's about 4300 gallons per day.
What is with the other, deeper well in the way of quality issues?
That one is basically producing 1440 gallons per day...and if it's minerals, it may be perfect to use, with drip hoses, as a source of irrigation for the garden.
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Post by johno on Jul 28, 2010 16:35:16 GMT -5
Based on the wells I'm accustomed to, 3 gpm is quite minimal, and 10 gpm makes for one heck of a shower. Somewhere in between is the range I'd want for a minimum. I'd be afraid to do any garden watering with that well, without knowing why the flow is so low.
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Post by mjc on Jul 28, 2010 16:55:54 GMT -5
Consider that in the US, most, if not all, showerheads sold are 2.5 GPM or less (and in some areas 1.5 GPM is mandated)...a 3 GPM well is more than enough. Even most appliances use under 5 GPM to fill (most way under...), so with a couple of hundred gallons storage capacity (depth and diameter of the well are the best way to get storage, if accounted for when it was drilled...but even a 100 gallon tank will do), even a 5 or higher GPM appliance isn't going to 'run out of water'...and don't forget to include the water heater in storage calculations, especially when thinking showers/appliances.
All of that said, though a 3 GPM well really is the bottom end I'd find acceptable...mine is 3.5 GPM and I'd like more, not because I run out of water...
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 29, 2010 0:14:09 GMT -5
leaving 12 acres that could be worked but is mostly a tree plantation at the moment. 3 acres are cleared. My issue is that there well doesn't appear to be very high producing. It only runs at 3gpm though we haven't gotten a chance to measure the depth of well and water level yet. Especially initially, I can see this garden as being water intensive. I don't generally water much with the exception of drought and seed beds but still this is sharply draining soil. In my climate/garden (Little to no rain from June through August with clayish soil), we generally need at least an inch of water per week during those months, so an acre garden would require at least 27,000 gallons of water per week. A 3 gpm well if running constantly would produce 30,000 gallons per week. Regards, Joseph |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 29, 2010 1:33:52 GMT -5
I also meant to mention that around here, there are typically two water systems on each piece of land. Potable water for the house, and non-potable water for the garden.
Regards,
Joseph
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Post by mjc on Jul 29, 2010 10:32:19 GMT -5
Joseph...is that drip or general irrigation?
Because using drip or soaker hoses and concentrating the water is what I had in mind. And most of Telsing's part of Canada, is wetter than your area, so she shouldn't have to water as much, which is why I asked about the 1 GPM well. Not running the numbers, I was thinking that the 1 GPM with soakers/drip should handle at least an acre sized garden.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 29, 2010 17:28:46 GMT -5
Joseph...is that drip or general irrigation? Our inch per week standard around here is for sprinkle irrigation in a very low humidity desert. Since our irrigation system typically operates from the middle of June to the middle of September that works out to one acre-foot per year. (For a one acre garden.) So when we are buying and selling irrigation water, we do it in units of acre-feet, or as we more often call it "a share". Regards, Joseph |
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Post by mjc on Jul 29, 2010 19:16:02 GMT -5
In the wetter east and probably the area of Canada that telsing is looking in, there isn't usually a need for constant irrigation. And most of the places, if the water is on your property, it is yours to do with what you will (but that is beside the point).
A 1 GPM well, would probably be enough to handle supplemental irrigation, if drip or soaker hoses were used. No, it wouldn't be enough for spray irrigation.
And in the context of this thread, separating the 1 GPM well to use as irrigation from the 3 GPM well to supply the house is probably would probably be adequate water for both.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 29, 2010 20:02:25 GMT -5
In the wetter east and probably the area of Canada that telsing is looking in, there isn't usually a need for constant irrigation. [...] And in the context of this thread, separating the 1 GPM well to use as irrigation from the 3 GPM well to supply the house probably would be adequate water for both. If I had a 1 gallon per HOUR well on my other place out in the desert, I would think that I had been transported to heaven. Regards, Joseph |
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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 29, 2010 20:47:16 GMT -5
You guys are very encouraging actually! I have been talking to local well diggers, and looking into options. I guess I just don't want to be thirsty  Still trying to convince my hubby to get rid of the conventional flush toilet. |
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