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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 27, 2011 23:02:11 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be reasonable for seed colors to change somewhat during storage? Couldn't some of the color change be indicative of the seed's viability? In my case, it's due to being uneducated in regards to colors. I learned less than 10 colors when I was in kindergarten and have learned very few new colors since then. I need more colors in my vocabulary if I'm going to be breeding multi-colored corn and talking about it with other people. AND, next year I intend to store corn seeds in clear plastic bags instead of paper envelopes so that I can tell what is inside without opening it. |
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 28, 2011 4:43:53 GMT -5
Your K teacher gave you a bum steer. As the daughter of an "artist" (she draws and paints, my personal definition of "artist" is much broader but I'm giving you her words at the moment) I have been taught that there are only 3 colors. Red, blue, and yellow. Shades and hues are achieved by combining various quantities of these 3 and adding or subtracting light. Light consists of black, which is no light at all and white which is all light. That's the ultra simplified "even you (meaning me) can understand it" explanation she managed to pound into my head.
All well and good, right? Well then comes this thing call the human brain. At this point it's all about perception. Unless we are blind, we all see (perceive) color. However, each brain "defines" it differently. Varying degrees of "color blindness" is the most handy example of this. My husband and one son have extreme degrees of this issue.
Depending on what color means, and how valuable it is to have an accurate description, you might want to get a chart that has definite tone/hue measures. You can compare your corn to the chart and then convert the visual analysis into numeric data which is more accurate and universally understandable. Fascinating topic!
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Post by blueadzuki on May 28, 2011 6:00:36 GMT -5
I still remember asking one of my high school science teachers (cant remember if it was Chemisty or Pysics "What is the wavelength of brown?". And as I have mentioned the difference in color in a lot of my legumes between black and blue is usually only discernable in actual sunlight, the yellow tone imparted by incandescents blends them (or why my sorting lamp is a halogen with a ridiculously high wattage.
I have a similar problem to Joseph with regards to marking off patterns in my corn. At what point does "speckled" turn into "mottled"? where is the dividing line between the "cow" pattern (a few large spots of color) and the "trout" pattern (lots of little ones) and for that matter the "moss" pattern (where the lines between the two colors are hazy)
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 28, 2011 9:02:33 GMT -5
Oh that is an interesting conundrum.... hmmm...
For myself, I think I would go on the whim of the moment of need. That is not my particular "level" of persnickety.
However, if I WERE inclined to be persnickety in that area, I think I would produce a chart with a blk/wht diagram followed by a description. That way I could have a definitive reference point. You might want to include a percentage of coverage for a numeric level of description as well. Perhaps describe as a ratio of blk to wht?
Fascinating...
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Post by blueadzuki on May 28, 2011 15:49:38 GMT -5
Oh that is an interesting conundrum.... hmmm... For myself, I think I would go on the whim of the moment of need. That is not my particular "level" of persnickety. However, if I WERE inclined to be persnickety in that area, I think I would produce a chart with a blk/wht diagram followed by a description. That way I could have a definitive reference point. You might want to include a percentage of coverage for a numeric level of description as well. Perhaps describe as a ratio of blk to wht? Fascinating... the problem with doing it that way is that a space with a few large spots and one with a lot of little ones can have the exact same color ratio (that little trick is the secret to how the "void" notice on legal documencts (to keep you form photocopying them) works). And it is possible for a kernel to have both (some big spots, and some little ones). Also the cut line for moss from the others is And the moss has nothing to do with the actual ratio, it has to do with how sharp the deliniations are between the colors. I'd end up having to do a diagram of every single solitary kernel of corn I planted, and since I usually plant something on the order of 1,000 in a year (to factor in for heavy losses and thinning) that would be nightmarish. Add on the color and it would be doubly complicated, since some color mixes I have are only being kept when both colors are at the correct saturation to be attractive (I have a little blue speckled corn with the red skin trait I am keeping ("salamander") ), but it only looks good as long as the red stays the exact same shade and tone, just enough to make the blue spots look black.) I also need to keep record of the kernels off a cob I don't plant to know the percentage (I have selected kernels with incredible speckles but are down low in the breeding becuse on the cob they came from they were the only kernel to make the cut. Others look less nice, but have higher ranks because they come from cobs that were all like that, or nearly all (The genetics of specks means that it's almost impossible to get a cob where every kernel has speckles, you usually get at least some that are pure of each color) |
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 28, 2011 18:45:14 GMT -5
hmmmmmmmmmmm.............. this requires further cogitation...............
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Post by Darth Slater on May 29, 2011 6:57:22 GMT -5
I see peope introducing SE and SU genes into some of these colored or Indian corns, what does that do to the flavor, i see alot of writing but little mention about flavor?
It nice to look at stuff but if it is poor table fare why bother?
And not everyone has the means to grind flour.
It would be different if you had a corn that looked like painted mountain and tasted like Candycorn.
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 29, 2011 7:31:03 GMT -5
I think time will be needed before that question can be answered Darth. I have a hunch (and I can hardly wait to see how true it is) that the reds in particular are more flavorful. Just a hunch, nothing solid backing that up. Perhaps it's due to the fact that there is a mental connection between red and hunger? Regardless, we had the opportunity to taste a small amount of Joseph's popcorn and the flavor was just amazing. There is simply no comparison at all between what he sent us and what is available in the stores. Not even the "Amish Grown" blue popcorn we purchased in Indiana last fall could compare.
Still, time will tell!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 30, 2011 18:00:25 GMT -5
I see peope introducing SE and SU genes into some of these colored or Indian corns, what does that do to the flavor, i see alot of writing but little mention about flavor? I figure flavor in corn is just like flavor in bread... Some people cannot eat anything but the whitest wonder, others prefer the full bodied flavor and improved nutrition of whole grain. I tasted hundreds of cobs of multi-colored sweet corn last summer (mostly raw): A few were nasty. Some of them were exquisite. Some were distinctive enough in taste or texture that a blindfolded person would be able to pick them out. Many were indistinguishable from plain old yellow sweet corn. The grossest difference and the easiest to detect is the sugar content: That pretty much jumps right out at you and swamps the subtler differences caused by the colors and associated chemicals. The next largest difference is the tenderness of the kernels skin. A cherry flavored corn was the most distinctive and unexpected. So after I get the colors and sugar content set, then I expect to work more on flavor. Also many colors after cooking turned to gray. I expect to spend time selecting for varieties that retain their color when cooked. I expect that the people who will only eat wonder white bread are unlikely to enjoy flavorful corn. |
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Post by Darth Slater on May 30, 2011 18:29:01 GMT -5
Thank you joeseph!! And I did plant almost all of what you sent!! Which buy the way was ALOT!!! My family was very grateful and if you ever need any tomatoes you dont have, Don't be shy!!!
Darth
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 30, 2011 18:32:23 GMT -5
if you ever need any tomatoes you dont have, Don't be shy!!! Well now that you mention it... A tomato that can be direct seeded and will produce an abundance of 1# fruits in 50 days in the high mountain desert where nights in the hottest part of the summer are in the 40's... |
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 30, 2011 21:56:40 GMT -5
I'm waiting to hear what comes back meeting THAT criteria! Although... I would strongly recommend you give Hartman's Yellow Gooseberry a shot if you haven't already.
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Post by Darth Slater on May 30, 2011 22:12:31 GMT -5
Gee Joseph, got the bar a little low eh? hehehe
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 31, 2011 0:22:10 GMT -5
Gee Joseph, got the bar a little low eh? hehehe If I'm gonna ask for a tomato I might as well ask for the perfect tomato for my garden. Giggles. I'd be happy with any direct seeded tomato that produced an abundant crop in my garden in ~100 frost free days, in spite of our intense night-time radiant cooling. I'm expecting to transplant about 100 varieties this summer known for their earliness. Perhaps one of them will grow better than what I have grown in the past. |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 9, 2011 9:33:53 GMT -5
Joseph has asked me to critique AD for y'all here. My seed came from Nuts, in France. Here are the questions:
1. How did it grow for you?
I thought it grew pretty well considering our current "severe drought" status. It didn't produce a whole lot, we only got a couple dozen ears which we ate pretty much in one sitting. The leftovers were turned into fritters a few days later.
2. How'd you like the taste?
LOL It's the first corn of the year and the first corn is always the best! My guys liked the yellow/white ears best as they were sweeter and more tender. I liked the ears with color best because they had a nice bit of "chew" to them and tasted more like corn rather than candy.
3. What about the colors?
I'm not exactly interested in the colors. I really thought I would be more excited about that aspect, but when it came to the dinner plate, it really didn't matter to me. Most of my neighbors were less than impressed by the idea of colors as well. Mind you, these are country folk who grew up with farming corn and know all to well the transition, over time, from "real" corn to the commercial crap. Their thinking is very different from ours.
4. How did it handle your drought?
Very well actually. This was the first to ripen. We haven't started picking any of the other corn yet. Compared to the starch corn, which only grew to a couple feet and produced nothing at all. The neighbors corn which you may recall was such a deep dark green compared to my lighter green plants that were not treated with extra nitrogen, produced nothing at all either. I was; in fact, most intrigued by the fact that the sweet corn showed itself more capable of surviving the drought than the starch corn. I would sure like to hear some additional thoughts on this matter.
5. Days to maturity?
You must think I'm some sort of record keeping maniac. I'm amazed when I get all the laundry done AND put 2 meals on the the table each day. The field was planted on April 16. The same day that the wax corn began to sprout as a matter of fact. LOL With the help of iCal, I might be better at record keeping than I realized. Mike says we picked it on June 23. So, 69 days! I'll be darned! Is that good, bad, or indifferent?
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