Garlic Conundrum, need advice

[blueadzuki]

Hi all

Okay here is the situation. On the side of my house there is a large (20 gallon or so) pot and this pot is filled with longicrispus garlic plants. Now here is my problem, due to certain cicumstances, the original cloves of this garlic only went into the pots about a month and a half ago, so these garlic plants are, developmentally at about the stage they would be in in about mid spring if planted normally (i.e. they have lain down no new bulb matter at all and have just finished using up the bulb food they had originally. It is getting colder and colder here, and I can not reasonably expect the long term frost to stay away for more than a week or two more. My question is under those circumstances what options do I have. Can I simply bring the whole pot inside to the garage or basement and let it bulb itself up there (this sounds like the most sensible option but I'm not sure if plants that are that young would not immediately simply die without light, leaving no bulbs behind. Leaving the pot outside seems like a bad idea, as I said the plants are far too young to bulb up and even if they did, I wouln't leave garlic bulbs ouside in that pot over the winter anyway (the patio it's on is concrete, and gets sufficently cold for the soil in the pots to freeze all the way to the bottom, even if I do cover them with something. Or do I just have to cut my losses, harvest the garic greens and eat them (that is in fact why I grow garlic, for the greens) and hope I can find more longicrispus bulbs next spring to start again. Advice?

[Joseph Lofthouse]

My brother plants his garlic about a month and a half before it snows... It overwinters fine for him in the ground. (I don't know about potted garlic.)

[mjc]

I'd just cut the greens...set the pot up on a bale or two of hay/straw and mulch. If anything comes up in the spring (and I think it will) you have double the fun...

[mnjrutherford]

Maybe leave a few in the planter and put a few up on the hay bale as MJC suggests. That way you would know for certain. I never thought of using just the greens. I like the idea, how does the flavor compare to onion greens? Are they tough? What type of cuisine do you use them in?

I really need good seasoning green herb to supplement a poor supply of parsley and cilantro. I don't get to use those herbs much because I haven't gotten them to grow well yet and they are a bit on the expensive side. But allium greens, while no where near the same flavor-wise, are still a wonderfully flavored green addition to the same dishes.

[flowerpower]

Can you put that pot in a garage or shed over the winter? Maybe you could put it in a big garbage bag & pack hay around it. But definitely don't leave it outside. I wouldn't worry about the pot getting winter sun. Mine are mulched and get covered by feet of snow. I don't imagine they are getting much sun all winter. Maybe pull a bunch out of the pot and overwinter them as houseplants?

[blueadzuki]

Yes I can put it in the garage. The hay bale idea is a no go, I'm a suburban, not rural gardener and bales of hay are 1. difficult for me to obtain and 2. prohibited by the local covenants. Actually I talked it over with my dad and we'll probably put the pot in his workroom rather than the actual garage, that gets enough ambient heat for the rest of the house to keep the temp in there from dropping below freezing. The houseplant idea would work except I already have brought in my conehead thyme, pine scented rosemary, Australian mint bush and spanishy thyme and between, those and the tree seedlings (most of whic hare tropical) I have literally no room left for winter houseplants! (I've already decided that my tree basil is going to have to be scarficed, it's gotten too big and too gangly, I'm sick of having to deal with it's perpetual whitefly problem (one beyond the scope of horticultural soap and srays), and I just don't ever use any of it (Tree basil has a very heavy clove/ licorice scent, which usally doesnt work for Italian type dishes and as for asian types is so strong that you can ususally only use a fragment of a leaf at a time)

MJR, garlic greens taste a lot like "wet" garlic, though if you take them really young, the flavor is a bit milder. if you have ever had garlic chives, the flavor is fairly similar. I usually use them mostly in Chinese type dishes, green garlic stir fried with Chinese bacon is a popular dish in the Hunan region, and a personal favorite of mine. I also have been known to sautee some as an accompanyment to some grilled beef dish (steak, hamburger, roats beef etc). Oh and I sometimes puree a stalk or two with cream cheese, on those occasions when the scallion from the deli starts going bad before I've run out of bagels! (If you do this last one, remember to let the stuff sit in the fridge at least overnight to mellow, or the cream cheese is too bitey to eat comfortably ;D

One final note for anyone growing garlic for the greens, pay no attention to my choice of garlic in this case (I't was bourne out of neececity, not choice) if growing galich for greens, you are usally better picking out a softneck variety; with the hardnecks once the neck starts growing the leaves begin to get coarse and chewy very fast (softneck will do this as well eventually, but it takes a lot longer) at this point they're okay for braising or any other method that adds moisture in the cooking process (like adding them to soup) but not for much else. Good luck!

[mnjrutherford]

ahhh... fascinating! I like garlic chives in dim sum dumplings and veg pancakes. hmmm...

[stevil]

I'm also a fan of garlic greens, but use hardneck bulbils, particularly varieties with largish bulbils. I actually planted many bulbils in my cold greenhouse yesterday for spring harvest (you can cut and they come again). I sow them densely as each bulbil doesn't need much space. I also sow them in pots and take them into my cold cellar. I then bring them upstairs into the warmth mid-winter and can then harvest garlic greens most of the winter and spring!

My main variety is the Finnish heirloom Alexandra so it's mostly bulbils of that variety I use (top centre left in the picture which shows topsets of various varieties).

By the way, I presume it's longicuspis not longicrispus?

Attachments:

[blueadzuki]

Nov 1, 2010 3:14:39 GMT -5 stevil said:

By the way, I presume it's longicuspis not longicrispus?

probably, I picked up the bulbs at my local FM and probably misread the label (or they wrote it wrong)

[paquebot]

Back to the topic, I also used to worry about too much fall growth and try to keep ahead of it with more mulch. Eventually discovered that it really didn't make any difference. Last fall, there was a project to get about 20 or so new varieties started via bulbils. Most went into whatever 2-gallon or 3-gallon pots I could scrounge. Almost all varieties had up to 4" growth by the time winter arrived. All were lined up either beside an 8" raised bed or alongside the cold frames. Snow became their only protection and there was no evidence of losing any.

Also, garlic volunteers are a major nuisance and nothing naturally will kill them. Most are up at least 6", some taller. They will get no protection from me and every one of them will still be there in the spring.

But advice needed? Leave your planter outside and stack 3 or 4 bags of leaves around it. After frost knocks the garlic leaves down, half fill a bag of leaves and lay that over it. The garlic will be safe and cozy all winter.

Martin

[mnjrutherford]

So, here's another question... How important is the planting window for garlic and perhaps allium in general? Last year, I started planting garlic on 10-31 and the last of it was planted the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Harvesting began on May 18 and went through mid June. No real schedule, we do what we can when we can.

But I'm wondering if there is any real benefit to getting all done at the same time?

[paquebot]

The latest that a person may plant garlic is 31 December. The earliest is 1 January.* Up here, with a long true winter, anything planted after mid-October normally would have zero growth until spring. I've always figured that any time after 15 September is fine here. That's when I planted most of mine this year. At WeGrowGarlic, we began planting on 8 October and completed on the 12th. I have several rocambole varieties with as much as 6" growth now but most others are just now emerging. Regardless, they will all mature about the same time.

*The 12/31 1/1 was from an experiment conducted about 10 years ago to prove that it did not matter how late garlic was planted. A section of the original raised garlic bed had been left open to accommodate it. A hatchet was used to chop holes in the frozen soil on 31 December. First section was given 6" of shredded leaves as well as a large plastic dome. Second was given just the 6" mulch. Remainder got nothing but the frozen bits of soil. In the spring, as soon as the exposed ones were up, the others had the mulch cleared off. Every single plant was the same size. Of course, all also matured at the same time.

Martin

[mnjrutherford]

That's pretty interesting. I wonder why it's like that. There must be some sort of purpose besides that fact that it makes my life quite convenient.

We have a spot of good fortune here. Some friends of our, a young couple who are marines, have volunteered to come help clear and plant the patches destined for garlic and onions. That will happen on the 14th. I'm excited! Now we have to scrounge enough mulch for the whole area. I am completely convinced that mulch is absolutely key to a low labor, successful crop.

[bunkie]

we always plant sometime between mid-October through mid-November, and we always mulch heavy with straw. we have heavy snow winters that seem to provide good mulch also. last winter was the first in 22 plus years that we had only a foot of snow! usually we have 7 plus feet. amazingly enough, the garlic still did great!

blueadzuki, i have left garlic as you have described, in a pot outide over the winter months. it froze solid, but come spring they all returned just fine. i had no mulch or covering over them. the only problem i see for you is the pot on a cement surface, maybe.

[paquebot]

Nov 3, 2010 7:56:11 GMT -5 mnjrutherford said:

That's pretty interesting. I wonder why it's like that. There must be some sort of purpose besides that fact that it makes my life quite convenient.

It's because garlic is a lot tougher than the mulching crowd think. For the previous 2 years, I knew that there were some varieties which showed up right after the snow melted. Both were winters with a lot of early snow which stayed and just deeper and deeper. Last year there was a lot of snow before there was any frost in the ground. At the garlic farm, we didn't start planting until about 23 October and there was no time for anything to sprout. All winter long, I knew that there was no frost under the deep snow. I told Karen & Mike to look at the fields immediately after the snow melted this spring. Deep snow one and thousands of gnarly green sprouts the next. All of that growth took place during the winter and under the snow. It was documented on www.wegrowgarlic.com

Martin