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Post by lmonty on Jan 24, 2011 0:49:52 GMT -5
Wondering if anyone here might have some wisdom to share regarding high calcium forages. Alflafa is the gold standard for my milk goats. But it doesnt grow well locally and needs to be imported.
Ive been trying to find a home growable substitute, both to grow some now to supplement the expensive alfalfa and as a replacement if i cant get any in the future.
I am not sure how to find out what the nutritional analysis is of things like that-expecially legume foliage. Would anyone know an online respource where I can look up thoe types of values?
Any other suggestions or words of wisdom? Appreciate it!
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Post by ozarklady on Jan 24, 2011 1:30:27 GMT -5
This link is about meat goats. But, really their diets are not all that different. www.goatworld.com/articles/nutrition/managingforages.shtmlThe milk goat needs all the nutrition to put nutrition in your milking pail, and the meat goat to put meat on their frame. One common plant that is really common here and is a legume, and my goats love it, and it is invasive, so good that they like it. Black Locust. Goats prefer to browse to eating pasture any day. Blackberries, both the fruits and plants are awesome for goats too. One thing, you need to supplement with sunflower seeds, or grow dandelions, as our soil is copper deficient. And copper deficiency leads to many illnesses. The only real difference is: strong flavored plants like onions can give milk a very off taste. So, if your milks tastes funny, look and see what they found to eat. |
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Post by lmonty on Jan 24, 2011 3:29:32 GMT -5
ozarklady-totally agree with you on the copper deficiencies. I have seriously been considering spreading micronized copper for increased soil content. Good article, the chart was very helpful. Locust and blackberries are great pasture plants for the goats, we sure have plenty. But what I am looking for is a relatively high protein, high calcium plant I can grow and save as hay for winter supplements. Thats one thing meat goat articles dont generally address, but our high producing girls can get into metabolic train wrecks without the right nutrients. I'm assuming our soils have no dearth of calcium, we live on an uncountable number of calcified shells of sea creatures  But copper is sparse. and iron in the water too high, which has its own problems binding other metals.... Cowpeas really look very much like they would fit the bill. Protein 19.4% and calcium of 1.4- thats even a better profile than early bloom alfalfa. Cheap and easy and easy to save seed from for next years crop. I may even experiment this spring, and buy a couple of pounds of black eyes peas and spread them in the little hay pasture, see how they do when cut by machine. As long as they dont mold up in the bales, thats a good way to increase protein for the cows. Thanks |
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Post by flowerpower on Jan 24, 2011 6:33:59 GMT -5
How much would you have to pay for an Alfalfa bale? In this area, it's considered premium horse hay. Maybe $4 for 50 lb bale. My hay guy delivers to a dairy goat farm on Long Island. They pay $7/bale for mixed. They do not ask for the alfalfa bales specifically. He charges the same for it. I pay $3 and it gets delivered and stacked nicely in the loft. I have dairy goats, but I don't milk them. They're just pets. They actually prefer a mixed bale over all grass. The first thing they pick out is the dried vetch. The dairy cow farmers will feed a lower quality hay to cows that are not milked. I got 10 bales form a dairy farm in the fall. I used for feed what he was gonna use for bedding. The goats loved it. |
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Post by lmonty on Jan 24, 2011 7:42:52 GMT -5
if I can get alfalfa hay around here which is rarely it runs about 8 bucks a bale. and its usually got black mold, so much of it is wasted. so I use alfalfa pellets, I think I just paid 7.80 a 50 lb bag. I go thru a bag in 2 days. Babies start tomorrow!!! so my herd could just about double in the next few weeks, I have 6 due between tomorrow and 1/22. I have 14 now, 6 does, 5 yearlings, and 3 bucks. Wonder how many i will have in 3 weeks? LOL Anybody want to buy some very nice quality purebred nubians? They eat cowpeas |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 24, 2011 9:08:27 GMT -5
According to what I have read, the rice beans I play around with are supposed to be unusually high in calcium. Of course the thing I was reading was referring to human nutrition, so the calcium count presumably refers to the mature seed; I have no idea how the whole plant makes out (though it occurs to me that any plant with a high calcium count in the seed should have an elevated calcium count in the rest of the plant, after all the calcium has to use the plant to get to the seeds.) I am always happy to provide seed. One note though, until my experiments this upcoming year are done, any seed I can share comes from the same stock I'm taking mine out of, so I can't vouchsafe whether its a type that will actually flower and fruit here (most can't).
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Post by lmonty on Jan 24, 2011 9:57:57 GMT -5
blueadzuki, i will send you a pm! thanks that's interesting info.
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Post by ozarklady on Jan 24, 2011 13:03:12 GMT -5
I haven't tried this yet. But, I bought a corn called ensilage corn. I ordered it, to begin growing my own feeds for my livestock. Here is the description: Zea Mays. 110 to 120 days. 10 to 11 inch, white ears, good for roasting when young. Large, very leafy plants favored for sileage. Sileage has tested as high as 16% protein and ears have tested at 11% protein. Very popular and widely grown 1900th century corn now reemerging as a fovorite for those looking to grow organic stock feed. Limited quantity available. Untreated seeds. The company offering it, is reasonable priced, sweet people... and lousy with backorders. It took me about 7-8 months to get all my products. I will order from them again, but I will also provide an alternative list to try to avoid backorders. www.heirloomacresseeds.com/CatalogPrd.asp?prm=105I don't plan to make silage, but if you dried the stalks and made them available in winter, I know my goats would eat them. 6 does all bred? That should easily be 12 kids, maybe more, maybe less. Nubians! Oh I miss my nubians, and ears! I love my La Mancha's and they are productive, but ears! I have been good, and still only have 2 does and one buckling, who is old enough to be herdsire, finally. All 3 are La Mancha, and buck is from a registered line, and should be great, but they are "auction specials", not registered goats. They have been pretty good as far as type specifics, and do their job of putting milk in the pail. But, I well know they are likely culls. I gave away all the kids last year, because they were half boer doelings. And my son wanted them. He has their sire. And he wanted to be able to milk his does if need be. |
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Post by flowerpower on Jan 25, 2011 6:56:32 GMT -5
My friend works a dairy farm. They order alot of corn silage for the cows. I wanted to try it for the goats. He said not to. That goats cannot process it as well as cows. Their digestive systems are very different. I do love the big ears on the Nubians. I have Alpines and Saanens and 2 pygmy crosses. The wethers must weigh at least 175 lbs. I wanted Pygmy goats. lol But I couldn't let these go to an auction for meat. The 2 smaller goats are turning 16 this year. And they are doing really well for their age. I occasionally buy those alfalfa pellets. They are definitely better than moldy hay. One year I got alot of moldy bales. I told my guy and he did replace them plus extras. Now he gives me extra bales just in case. I really wish I could use those big round bales. But I have no way to store those. |
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Post by bunkie on Jan 25, 2011 15:02:27 GMT -5
if you used the round bales fp, wouldn't you need less? for winter, we get round bales here and stand them on their sides. we don't cut the twine and keeping them whole like that keeps them dry pretty much. the goats eat from either side of them... www.imageuploads.net/ims/pic.php?u=27615PDlUo&i=162812www.imageuploads.net/ims/pic.php?u=27615PDlUo&i=162813we also used to give them the alfalfa pellets in the winter, but now give them COB wet, also known as sweet feed. ol, that's a good idea about keeping the corn stalks for winter feed. trouble is, our goats love them green and there aren't many left to try drying for winter use! ;D |
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Post by flowerpower on Jan 26, 2011 7:51:46 GMT -5
I would definitely spend less money on hay with rounds. But I can't leave them outside like that. The snow drifts get pretty high behind the barn. The bale would be half buried right now.  If I could store a few up in the loft, I'd be happy. But I don't think the door is big enough to fit the round. The barn is over 100 yrs old. It has a pulley system to bring up loose hay. You'd hook it up to the draft horses. |
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Post by lmonty on Jan 26, 2011 12:17:51 GMT -5
Well we had our babies that were due yesterday about 9 PM last night. Quads, but unfortunately it was a train wreck delivery and only two survived. But i am happy with the two that are doing well, they look great and are definitely potential show quality, which wasn't hard to anticipate from this breeding. I kept a couple of does from this breeding last year and they are turning out awesome, plan to show them this April at Conway AR Quad Show. So these guys are for sale, unfortunately I cant keep them all! Wish I could. I would be a goat hoarder if I could LOL, at least of the babies. and just to keep this post on topic- i am real pleased with the cowpea info from the article ozarklady posted. i plan on experimenting with them this year quite a bit. i love that the peas are as diverse as beans, and can be highly colored, which i take as a good sign of high anthocyanin level. that's a great benefit for man or beast, so colored ones are definitely on the radar. |
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Post by johno on Jan 27, 2011 2:00:21 GMT -5
You could put a tarp over the round bale to keep rain off. You could also put the round bale on a pallet if you're worried about ground moisture.
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Post by flowerpower on Jan 27, 2011 7:15:29 GMT -5
That's very sad about the babies. How is the doe doing? John, that sound good in theory. But it actually would make alot more work for me. I'd be shoveling even more snow than I do now. My goats would definitely destroy the tarp too. lol |
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Post by ozarklady on Jan 27, 2011 10:23:36 GMT -5
I had always heard that you can't use round bales for goats. Since I don't have a tractor and can't handle the round bales it was irrelevant to me. But looks like yours are doing well with it.
The theory was: They will climb up on it, they will befoul it and then refuse to eat it.
I pay $10.00 for a bale of alfalfa that weighs about 60-70# (due to price it is rationed), $6.00 for Bermuda hay, and $5.00 for basic grass hay. I feed them hay inside the barn, then any wasted hay becomes their bedding. The bedding later on becomes my compost pile makings! I only use hay in winter, but I do feed alfalfa hay year round at the milking stand along with the grains. Due to drought last year, I had to start hay feeding early.
Alfalfa pellets and sunflower seeds are both offered year round too.
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But copper is sparse. and iron in the water too high, which has its own problems binding other metals....
If I could store a few up in the loft, I'd be happy. But I don't think the door is big enough to fit the round. The barn is over 100 yrs old. It has a pulley system to bring up loose hay. You'd hook it up to the draft horses. 