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Post by canadamike on Feb 8, 2011 18:50:40 GMT -5
Acidity tends to be the problem here...as for being spent, I get mine straight from the mushroom farm and it iss pure and VERY VERY far from being just empty organic matter. As a matter of fact, we put some on spent soil at the museum and did not get any pepper harvest, but immense dark green plants that ended up starting to give us fruits at the end of the season, once they had eaten all that extra nitrogen I suppose. I know people who work at Continental mushrooms, they don't do re-runs of mushroom growing on compost that was used once, adding a little spike. In fact, I never expected the amount of nitrogen I got, really. It is the first year it ever happened to me.And everybody in the area will tell you their compost is amazing. I just wish I had started a lettuce farm  It is all about the way the mushroom farm uses up ( or not) its compost I think. And bagged compost is like bagged manure IMOO... |
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Post by Alan on Feb 10, 2011 23:37:09 GMT -5
Mine should be as pure as the parent plants. They were blooming within a month after they were planted back. No other brassica would have been blooming until July or August. However, we did note some slight differences among the plants grown from Collard Shack seed. Some were more yellow than others. Some had slightly smoother leaves than others. The seed that I saved has not been grown out but the 3 plants which were used were about the same. I have 5 or 6 buried now but they are select ones chosen for color. Martin On my three grow outs I got quite a bit of diversity, but always the light green, leaning towards slightly muted yellow green (reminiscent of the color of tobacco leaves affected by blue mold) like you did with some learning much stronger yellow. There was also diversity particularly in leaf size, internodal distance, stem size, and ability to "head" at the end of the season. |
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Post by Alan on Feb 10, 2011 23:44:23 GMT -5
I am under the impression that there are at least 2 varieties of yellow cabbage collards (YCC)? What are the chances that yours have changed on a genetic level since you first began growing them? In fact, DO plants change/evolve to meet the demands of a new location? Do you think that it would be a good idea to grow seed from different sources together as a way of increasing the genetic diversity? I've also got another seed source that I will attempt to pursue. I was talking about the trip to Ayden with a friend and told her we were heading up that way to get YCC seed and she says, "My cousin sells the starts for YCC. I bet you can get some from her! She sells the transplants but she might sell you some seed as well." She gave me the contact information so I'll have to follow up on it. She lives a couple of towns over. I figured I can always grow a few of the plants and save the seed myself if she won't sell me any seed. Do they taste "cabbagy"? Do they need the super long cooking time that regular collards need? Likely there are more than two variations of Yellow Cabbage Collards as many families are maintaining their own selections isolated from other families even next door and circulating a slightly different combination of genes, probably even containing genes from other heirloom collards from the area. The USDA finished a collection of collards in the Carolinas in 2008 which turned up nearly 100 unique strains. Commercially available also are the Morris Heading Collards, similar to YCC but not the same. Yes, over time by selecting seed that represent the traits that you admire the seed does become adapted to location, not usually by spontaneous mutation but by concerted or unconcious selection on behalf of the seed saver they do and will become more adapted. Mutation among brassicacea is fairly common thus the many types of brassicas share the same genus and species names but representing many forms. To increase the diversity it would be fine to include other accessions. Brassicacea are heavy outbreeders and need a large population for seed saving as they are fairly self incompatible if the genetic pool becomes too small. The small population Martin produced seed from is probably fine for a year or two but coming years the population will have to go up to fifty or more individuals to maintain the genetic expression without inbreeding. They taste like collards, but the texture is a bit more firm like cabbage, they do take a good long while to cook, but they produce like crazy and don't mind summer heat too much. After frost they become almost crazy sweet, similar to the taste of winter king type cabbages. ] |
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Post by lmonty on Feb 11, 2011 12:41:48 GMT -5
how tall do the YCC get? and what is the spacing y'all would recommend? trying to plan the best spot for them this year...
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Post by mnjrutherford on Feb 11, 2011 13:04:43 GMT -5
Ya got me. I've resisted planting collards to this point. I prefer turnips and mustards. Collards are for "nawthunuhs". LOL
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Post by paquebot on Feb 11, 2011 13:14:19 GMT -5
If there were a problem with the diversity which I saw, it wasn't my doing. The only seed which I have grown out thus far has been straight from the original source. It wasn't so obvious the first 2 years when there were only 3 or 4 plants in different plots. It was obvious last year when I was requested to start a dozen for one gardener and 18 for another. Midway through the growing season, certain plants were better than others for various reasons and one of the gardeners flagged those which he thought were best to save seed from. Those are the ones now buried and awaiting replanting in the spring. I'm not the least bit interested in producing seed by the pound in the interest of genetic diversity, I'd be more interested in getting rid of much of the diversity which apparently already exists in what is supposed to be the parent stock.
Martin
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Post by paquebot on Feb 11, 2011 13:22:15 GMT -5
how tall do the YCC get? and what is the spacing y'all would recommend? trying to plan the best spot for them this year... Those which I allowed to grow untouched in a failed attempt to produce seed topped out at just over 3' to the tips of the top leaves. Stalks of those which are in cold storage are about 2½'. Spacing has been about 2' by all who have grown them. Martin |
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Post by Alan on Feb 11, 2011 14:54:03 GMT -5
If there were a problem with the diversity which I saw, it wasn't my doing. The only seed which I have grown out thus far has been straight from the original source. It wasn't so obvious the first 2 years when there were only 3 or 4 plants in different plots. It was obvious last year when I was requested to start a dozen for one gardener and 18 for another. Midway through the growing season, certain plants were better than others for various reasons and one of the gardeners flagged those which he thought were best to save seed from. Those are the ones now buried and awaiting replanting in the spring. I'm not the least bit interested in producing seed by the pound in the interest of genetic diversity, I'd be more interested in getting rid of much of the diversity which apparently already exists in what is supposed to be the parent stock. Martin Martin, it weren't meant as a slight against the way you saved seeds, just a general expression of the genetic limitations of brassicas in a short amount of time, a small population to increase the frequencies of prefered genetic combinations is fine for a couple years, but soon you have to increase the plant population drastically or you end up with incompatability, sterile seeds, and generally weak plants. |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Feb 22, 2011 3:53:39 GMT -5
I haven't had a chance to get out to Ayden yet. We are aiming for next Wednesday at this point. We found out a bit more about the fleamarket/stockyard in the area and on Wednesday mornings there is a fleamarket which area poultry people typically attend. That ought to round out the day.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Mar 2, 2011 21:51:35 GMT -5
Well, we finally got to Ayden today and guess what? The Collard Shack was closed!!! ah well... not a huge loss since we were out to accomplish multiple purposes. I took some shots of the 5 gallon pots with collards growing in them. Not that it will do anyone any good, I haven't figured out how to get photos from my new version of iPhoto to the computer. Does this story get any better? Well, no... not really.
In about 3 weeks, IF the gas prices go down at least a little bit, we will plan a Saturday trip. The sign on the door says they are open on Saturdays and we will need to go back to see if we can get some new chicken blood. Meanwhile, we bought a small incubator today and will start hatching a batch of eggs tomorrow. I'll be excited after I get a decent nights sleep! ;o)
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