|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Jun 9, 2011 13:31:58 GMT -5
USDA Organic Rule requires that composting plant and animal materials be produced through a process that establishes an initial C:N ration of between 25:1 and 40:1, and that a temperature of between 131ºF. and 170ºF be maintained for 3 days using an in-vessel or static aerated pile system; OR maintain a temperature of between 131ºF. and 170ºF for 15 days using a windrow composting system, during which the materials must be turned 5 times.
Okay, do any of you think this is overthinking the process? I am a small farm. I'm lucky if I get to the compost pile to turn it twice a month. It's just me and my pitchfork.
How in the heck am I supposed to figure out C to N Ratio? I pulled some pig weed, I threw it on the pile. A few days later I turned and watered the pile. I pulled some orach. Some I fed to the chickens. While there, I cleaned out a coop and wheelbarrowed it over to the compost pile along with the Orach. I scooped all out on top. A few weeks went by and I needed that row, so I turned and moved the unfinished compost 6 f't East. Turning it and watering it.
In this same manner, weeds/grass/manure come in and compost comes out over and over like Summer following Fall.
Why must this be something to keep a log about?
|
|
|
|
Post by steev on Jun 9, 2011 15:46:14 GMT -5
Because you have wandered into the industrial agribusiness zone, where anything not spelled out and regulated to a fare-thee-well will get done in the least expensive way, if at all.
Because the rules were written with the co-operation of big operations, to include rules and proceedures that they can live with, given their economies of scale.
Because you didn't hire a lawyer/lobbyist to make your concerns important to the rules-makers.
Because you're just a person, not a Corporate PERSON, and shouldn't be trying to muscle in on their game. Whose world do you think this is, anyway!?
|
|
|
|
Post by paquebot on Jun 9, 2011 23:54:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Jun 10, 2011 16:17:26 GMT -5
Steev,
Gee I thought I was organic.
I just never thought that a tomato with a piece of paper that had it's life plotted out was more organic than one that was planted with love and respect for it's truly miraculous nature.
Corp see corp.
I actually know how to figure out C to N. I should have said, now how the heck am I supposed to make those work when all of a sudden I have 10 bales of bad hay and no green? Or 20 bales of weeds and no carbon?
I think it all works out in the end. It just doesn't happen on the same day. And why should anyone care? My compost doesn't leave the farm. I don't sell it, trade it or give away. It's more valuable than gold.
My compost is not dead like the stuff you can buy. It's vibrantly ALIVE!
|
|
|
|
Post by steev on Jun 10, 2011 21:35:42 GMT -5
Yes, I doubt that not one bit. I also think you aren't supplementing it with municipal sewage sludge or mega-dairy cowpoo or CAFO caca.
Still, in the unlikely event that your questions aren't pretty rhetorical, just look at the moronic minuet that PG&E and the PUC have been dancing, these last few months, as each tries not to 'fess up to not having done its job as prescribed by regulations, despite cashing their paychecks regular as clockwork. So the word would get around that the PUC is really on the ball, if they had some small energy providers to hassle, so they'd spread the word of how tough the PUC is. Public Relations and Cost/Benefit Ratioes; somebody gets a paycheck for paying attention to these things.
I'm going to let this go, as I tend to opine to an immoderately incendiary degree, well known to many here, I'm sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by paquebot on Jun 11, 2011 19:32:39 GMT -5
I actually know how to figure out C to N. I should have said, now how the heck am I supposed to make those work when all of a sudden I have 10 bales of bad hay and no green? Or 20 bales of weeds and no carbon? You merely stockpile one until you have enough of the other. For past month, been working on 5 or 6 pickup loads of bagged leaves which were stored in a farm shed. Have about the same stashed beside the horse manure pile and scheduled to be mixed next month. Martin |
|
|
|
Post by Alan on Jun 20, 2011 23:37:58 GMT -5
Sometimes "shit" don't run on schedule, particularly when your one guy trying to run a multi faceted farm.
USDA "Organic" isn't even worth composting and their rules and regulations and corporate expectations can kiss my big white ass; both cheeks.
Besides, anyone with any amount of experience can testify that "cold composting" while slower is much better for the overall plant and soil helth.
The real newsflash here is that those pathogens all the little "germ freaks" in the world worry about are already roaming around nature and no amount of composting or regulatory bullshit will mitigate it meeting the field. It's the pathogens coming out of test tubes funded by government entitites we need to be concerned about.
|
|
|
|
Post by steev on Jun 21, 2011 1:17:59 GMT -5
True that, and cold composting is better for my health; I've got plenty work without fluffing the compost. The bad bugs are only really a problem if you're using lots of antibiotic-laced poo teeming with resistant bugs. Stay away from industrial agribusiness and the problems aren't much we haven't dealt with for millennia. Let those who want total "control" move off-planet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 21, 2011 13:48:30 GMT -5
Don't use the word "organic" which the government has claimed ownership over, and you won't have to deal with the bureaucratic paperwork imposed by the bureaucracy.
There are other words you can use "natural", "genuine", "real", "bio-logical", etc... Then you educate your customers that "organic" is more about bureaucratic paperwork than it is about wholesomeness.
|
|
|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Jun 21, 2011 14:01:53 GMT -5
My inspection is this Friday. And I have chained myself to the puter to put my records in order for them. Leo thinks it's a stoopid waste of my time and energy. Further, he says the guy who's going to inspect us is a "by the book" ass. And no matter what, he's here to make sure that I don't pass. Because California is trying to get rid of small farmers that they can't make money on.
Fellas, I just hate to give it up. I've been organic for 20 frigging years. I was the FIRST registered organic grower in my county. My # is 0001.
Now if I had the money, I'd get one of those lawyers, to file a class action suit on behalf of all family farmers, for whom I believe these regulations should NOT apply.
This is a small farm. I don't have a farm office for him to browse through my records. He's going to be in my living room for crying out loud.
It just cheeses my ass (both fat white cheeks) that for 20 years I have done everything that the law was intended for to protect my customers and preserve the land. Okay, I'll get down off my soapbox and back to putting my records in order. Sigh.
|
|
|
|
Post by steev on Jun 21, 2011 22:49:09 GMT -5
Well, there's your problem! If your number was 0007, you'd just break his neck and add that N(umbnuts) to balance out the C(rap) he's giving you for your compost.
As for that class-action lawsuit, the Supremes just passed another windy stinker in favor of big business, saying Walmart can't be sued for practices they deny they have, facts be damned. Why, some of their best friends are women, even some of their mothers; really, it makes no sense to accuse them of discriminating against women, when they have a written policy against that. To suggest they'd say one thing while doing another is casting aspersions on our nation's largest retailer, provider of huge numbers of sub-living-wage jobs without which so many of our fellow citizens would barely be able to scrape by.
Granted that you have more than a financial investment in organic growing, but you don't have to give that up, just their recognition of it, and the expense of it. If you have to let that go, the shame is theirs. Perhaps you might want to include a written explanation of the position you're put in by the stupid rules with your deliveries to your customers, letting them know that all that's changing is your relationship to the government, not to the land or your customers.
|
|
|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Jun 22, 2011 12:23:18 GMT -5
Steev, My inspection is Friday. I'm so freaked out I just mowed a 100ft. extension cord. As soon as it's over, I'll have a nice chat with my customers. Most of them have been with me several years. But, I won't be able to sell "organic" seed to organic farmers. Oh well, I'll just give it to youse guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by steev on Jun 22, 2011 17:06:50 GMT -5
That organic seed thing is a serious concern, no doubt. Having no idea what sort of money that represents, I certainly can only offer my condolences on your dilemma.
I am reminded of the climax of my career in the chemical/pharmaceutical field. The company I was working for was in the end-stages of integration into Bayer A G of Germany, after years of trundling along. They were busy dismantling facilities to relocate them where there weren't pesky unions and such, so costs would be reduced. Then the guys in 3-piece suits with clipboards came around to note what academic degrees people had, the upshot being that regardless of one's expertise, the important thing was one's papers; one did not have legitimacy by experience, only by academic certification. Well, that's one way to run things.
Did you mow that cord cross- or with the grain?
|
|
|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Jun 24, 2011 19:11:51 GMT -5
Cord mowed cross grain. Thats the electric fence protecting the grazing chickens. (That will cost me...) It "was" a 100 ft. cord.
Inspection complete. The Spanish Inquisition might have been better. After they put the thumb screws to you and got your confession, your fate was immediately decided.
After 2 hours of probing questions and looking at everything from my financial records to my seed, harvest, compost, amendment, rotation, records and I can't even remember what all. They left. The said they would turn their information in to a committee who would give me an answer. (A faceless committee who have not been here to see what I do, and can hide safely behind their bureaucracy.) The folks on this committee Are big dairy, big citrus, big beef, big organic...Campbell Soup, Trader Joe's and some University/County folks...all people who work on small family farms with their own blood and sweat.
This morning 2 inspectors turned up. One from the State and one from the County. I guess that's because I made the mistake of calling the state and asking questions.
Somehow I keep forgetting that we live in a corporate state and I should not ask questions.
I feel like I've been beaten about the head and shoulders.
I'm going to find some mulberry grappa and a chair and go stare at my corn growing.
|
|
|
|
Post by steev on Jun 24, 2011 21:14:01 GMT -5
Surely you'd never expect to get an immediate answer to your problem from somebody who's on your property, uninformed about your history of mental health or lack thereof, unaware of your inclinations regarding gun-ownership, and who isn't certain you don't own any dogs larger than chihuahuas.
What with the current heat, I hope watching that corn grow isn't too stimulating to help you chill. Best wishes, for sure.
|
|
