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Post by raymondo on Aug 11, 2012 19:25:29 GMT -5
Joseph, are they all fruits on that scape from the bucket under the tree? They all look plump with seed.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 11, 2012 20:01:19 GMT -5
Joseph, are they all fruits on that scape from the bucket under the tree? They all look plump with seed. Yes, they are all fruits. The bulbils were removed like 3 weeks ago. There were two general types of scapes: One type had perhaps 500 tiny bulbils and white flowers. The other type had around 50 larger bulbils with purple flowers. (The recent photos are of purple flowered scapes.) I started removing bulbils about the same time the husk around the flower split. With the purple flowers, it only took twice to remove the bulbils with little damage to the flower stems. With the white flowers I removed bulbils many many times, damaging most of the flower stems in the process. The purple flowers have larger fruits than the white. |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Aug 13, 2012 6:43:19 GMT -5
I have been removing bulbils from garlic flowers. Today I counted de-bulbiled stalks that seem like they have flowers on them with the potential of forming seeds. There are 34 stalks that look viable, and about 4 dozen that don't. I am keeping them watered. I counted 6 species of pollinators during a quick walk-through. In addition, there are about a dozen stalks growing in a bucket of water in the shade. I'm a little unclear on the technique you used on the fruiting stalks. Did you remove bulbils from plants that are currently in the ground or cut the stalks and set them in a bucket somewhere? I want to know so I can ruthlessly copy your success. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 13, 2012 8:23:11 GMT -5
I'm a little unclear on the technique you used on the fruiting stalks. Did you remove bulbils from plants that are currently in the ground or cut the stalks and set them in a bucket somewhere? I want to know so I can ruthlessly copy your success. It's still early to tell if there was success, since I haven't yet germinated seeds, but.... Before I started I read Growing Garlic from True Seed by Ted Jordan Meredith and Avram DruckerIt had a few things in it that I didn't like, so I did my own thing. First of all, if a plant is already attached to a root system it seems wrong to cut it off and put it in a bucket of dirty water. But since they did it like that I followed their instructions, and cut off a few stalks and put them in water, but most plants I left growing in the garden and continued to water normally. (I change the bucket water 2X per week, and cut a fresh end to the stem when I do.) Cutting off the scapes and putting them in water would allow a normal garlic harvest. The outer skins of my garlic rotted, so they will not be good for market when I finally get around to harvesting them. I can still use them as planting stock or on my own table. I cut the stems off when I removed the bulbils for the first time (about when the husk started splitting). The other thing I didn't like was tweezers. Using them is slow, cumbersome, and fussy. Not something that works with my attitude towards life. My technique is to flick the bulbils off with my fingernail. A little sideways or downwards pressure is all it takes to pop a bulbil, and separate it from it's nutrients. I don't care if I leave the bulbil ensnared in the flower stems, it will fall out in a day or two, or I can shake the blossom and they fall out. The first few bulbils are tightly wedged in by other bulbils, but I'm as rough as necessary to start with until a few pop out. Then I work from the missing spot pushing still attached bulbils toward the empty spot. As much as possible I avoid crushing flower stems, which are poking up beyond the bulbils. On freshly opened husks with many hundreds of bulbils, the flower stems might be tight against the bulbils, so I may wait a day or two. Whenever I'm in the garden on a puttering day, I walk through the garlic patch and remove bulbils that I missed previously and from newly opening flowers. Some plants are finished on the first walk-through. Some require many many attempts. And then it's wait, wait, wait, wait, wait for them to flower, and for the seeds to grow, and for the pods to dry down. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 18, 2012 17:10:59 GMT -5
I grabbed some garlic at the farmer's market today that a friend of a friend collected in Ukraine a few years back. I'd place them in the marbled purple stripe hard-necked group. He says that they are very hot.
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Post by 12540dumont on Aug 19, 2012 1:29:16 GMT -5
Joseph, please....
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 19, 2012 9:43:37 GMT -5
I bought what I wanted for my breeding project. Then 5 minutes later I went back and bought enough to share.  |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 1, 2012 13:04:22 GMT -5
I harvested the garlic pods yesterday. Here's a photo of the entire harvest. The plants on the right matured in the field. The others were cut and placed in a bucket of water in the shade. I'm expecting to thresh in a month or so after they finish drying as slowly as I can manage. It took about 6 weeks from the start of bulbil removal to harvest of the seed pods.  |
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Post by samyaza on Sept 4, 2012 1:58:41 GMT -5
Oh my god, you did it ! How lucky you are !
I wish you to succeed in your quest to fully fertile garlic !
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Post by templeton on Sept 4, 2012 4:54:43 GMT -5
Joseph, thanks for the link to that garlic seed site - very tempting - except I've never even seen a scape on any of my garlic  T |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 4, 2012 23:09:38 GMT -5
I always used to grow soft-necked garlics because they produce larger bulbs in my garden. I'm glad that last fall I decided to trial a whole bunch of hard-necked (flowering) garlics.
I think that the marbled purple stripe group of garlics worked best for me. The porcelain garlics only produced a few fruits: It was tough to remove bulbils from the porcelain, perhaps they are male sterile and needed pollen from one of the other varieties. My garlic flowers were spread out very widely from each other. I wasn't planning on attempting to grow seeds when I planted the crop.
I still don't know if there are seeds in the fruits, but perhaps in October I'll open them up and take a peek.
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 5, 2012 10:22:59 GMT -5
Joseph, you did it again.
Hey that purple garlic of yours is beautiful.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 5, 2012 13:26:35 GMT -5
Hey that purple garlic of yours is beautiful. I found it at the farmer's market. It came home with a visitor to the Ukrain a few years ago. I'm intending to use it next year in my quest for true garlic seed.  |
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Post by bunkie on Sept 9, 2012 13:59:51 GMT -5
oh joseph, that is beautiful garlic!
i was wondering if the garlic seeds that are sold by companies for sprouting purposes would be true garlic seed?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 9, 2012 14:29:02 GMT -5
i was wondering if the garlic seeds that are sold by companies for sprouting purposes would be true garlic seed? As far as I know, true garlic seeds (botanical seeds of Allium sativum) are not available for purchase from any source... The companies that are selling "garlic seeds" are selling vegetatively propagated clones, in the same manner that companies selling "seed potatoes" are not selling botanical seeds, they are selling cloned tubers. |
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