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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 4, 2012 2:28:53 GMT -5
Yes, that scene from "A Farm for the Future" is certainly a memorable scene. It makes sense too after watching it. It's one of my favourite documentary's, and is always a good watch. I think i might watch it again right now, since you all reminded me of it. topdocumentaryfilms.com/farm-for-the-future/Yeah, i think as long as the soil doesn't dry out and has lots of organic matter the microbes will eventually go deeper, and the good soil eventually is deeper as well. I am reminded of the scene from another documentary when they are talking about Terra Preta. topdocumentaryfilms.com/secret-el-dorado/ |
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Post by johno on May 6, 2012 10:19:07 GMT -5
I am using cardboard for killing the winter cover crops. The idea is to have all the good biomass left in place without having to turn it in. I cast a little sawdust on the cardboard to weigh it down. I've been drilling holes through it with my trusty cordless Ryobi where I want to sow seeds. So far so good. Pic of the cardboard mulch. I'll add more mulch to cover it when seedlings emerge. i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp10/johnosgarden/100_2103.jpg |
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Post by richardw on May 6, 2012 14:34:20 GMT -5
Thats a neat idea johno
I use cardboard in my orchard when i plant a new tree and just keep adding more layers as the worms brake them down.
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Post by littleminnie on May 6, 2012 20:16:27 GMT -5
What perfect holes! Do you get the cardboard from the grocery store? I have in the past but have such wind I am not sure about it this year. Floral dept gets long thin boxes perfect for paths between heat sensitive plants. I might do that in some areas. It is so much healthier for the soil than plastic.
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Post by steev on May 6, 2012 23:53:18 GMT -5
Good idea, that cardboard.
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 7, 2012 9:13:45 GMT -5
I've been saving flour, sugar, & rice sacks. I wonder how the drill would work making holes in them? I've been wanting to do that but how to make the holes has been the single major hold up in the idea.
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 7, 2012 13:32:27 GMT -5
Well, my guys have just finished watching "Farm for the Future". They started watching yesterday while I was making dinner. I didn't get to watch it with them, but I could hear bits and pieces. At one point the film was stopped and my husband started fussing the boys.
"Your mother has been trying to get me to do this stuff for years! I thought she was off her rocker but here is the proof that she was right all along and this is great information about what we need to do. So shut up, sit still, and listen!" I didn't know if I should laugh or cry so I just kept making coleslaw.
Anyhow, all four of us sat down for the last bit and I got reminded of something that I have to get back to and that is nitrogen fixing trees. Some of you may remember this discussion from quite a few years back. The 3 most likely trees to use here in the states would be "Seabuckthorn", "Russian Olive", and "Black Alder" (Alnus glutinosa). There are issues with invasiveness with the first two and the "Black Alder" has been nearly impossible to source to date.
The movie mentions "Italian Alder (Alnus cordata)". A quick glance through WikiPedia says that this is a superlative nitrogen fixer and native to Italy though a search brought up UK nurseries. Wiki further says that Alnus serrulata (commonly called either "Hazel", "Tag", or "Smooth" Alder) is the species common to the eastern coast of the US from Nova Scotia down to Florida. What it DOES NOT mention is if this tree has the nitrogen fixing properties of its near relatives.
I'd like to try to source the best fixer... ?
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Post by steev on May 8, 2012 22:32:18 GMT -5
Black locust wouldn't be good?
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 9, 2012 9:36:55 GMT -5
Black locust wouldn't be good? What do you mean? Are you saying that it also fixes nitrogen? I'm off to check on it now. YES! I'm sure ANY nitrogen fixing tree would work. I just don't know what trees do and what trees don't. Nor do I know of an efficient way to search. ALWAYS open to advice!
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 9, 2012 9:41:25 GMT -5
uh... so... maybe I lied?
GENERA OF THE NITROGEN FIXING TREES
From: James Brewbaker (brewbake@hawaii.edu)
based on Brewbaker et al. 1990 - see References:
A summary table is provided of trees and large shrubs (> 3 m high) that were validated as nodulating, and known or presumed to fix nitrogen. The summary is derived from NFTA's expanded database that includes about 1500 taxa. Only one family that includes nodulating plants, the Datiscaceae, does not appear in this table, as the genus Datisca lacks arboreal or woody forms.
Most of the 115 genera of N-fixing trees and shrubs (NFT) are legumes. As calculated by de Faria et. al. (1989) nodulation characterized 23% of 349 tested caesalpinioid species, 90% of 454 tested mimosoids and 97% of the 2592 papilionids.
Nodulation involves symbiosis with rhizobial bacteria in the legume and in the genus Parasponia (and possibly other taxa in the Ulmaceae). All other non-leguminous genera are nodulated by actinomycetes of the genus Frankia.
LIST OF GENERA OF NITROGEN FIXING TREES
BETULACEAE:
Alnus (38/38)
CASUARINACEAE:
Allocasuarina (11/20), Casuarina (8/45), Gymnostoma (1/2)
CORIARIACEAE:
Coriaria (16/16)
ELEAGNACEAE:
Elaeagnus (10/45), Hippophae (1/3), Shepherdia (2/3)
LEGUMINOSAE:
CAESALPINIOIDEAE:
nodulation found in 23% of tested species all "positive" genera listed here: Brownea (1/30), Chamaecrista (2/250), Colvillea (1/1), Cordeauxia (1/2), Dialium (1/40), Dicymbe (2/13), Dimorphandra (2/25), Epurea (1/14), Erythrophleum (2/9), Gossweilerodendron (1/2), Hardwickia (1/1), Lysidice (1/1), Maniltoa (1/20), Sclerolobium (3/35), Tachigali (2/24)
MIMOSOIDEAE:
nodulation found in 90% of tested species, only the larger genera listed:: Acacia (193/1200), Albizia (30/150), Calliandra (11/200), Inga (14/350), Mimosa (3/400), Newtonia (1/11), Parapiptadenia (1/3), Paraserianthes (1,5), Prosopis (15/44), etc.
PAPILIONOIDEAE:
nodulation found in 97% of tested species, only the larger genera listed: Aeshynomene (2/150), Caragana (4/80), Chamaecytisus (1/30), Clitoria (1/70), Dalbergia (17/100), Desmodium (including Codariocalyx and Ougeinia) (4/300), Erythrina (26/108), Indigofera (1/700), Laburnum (4/26), Lonchocarpus (8/150), Robinia (3/4), Sophora (7,50), Swartzia (8/135), Tephrosia (1/400), Wisteria (4/6), etc.
MYRICACEAE:
Comptonia (1/1), Myrica (13/35)
RHAMNACEAE:
Ceanothus (14/55)
ROSACEAE:
Cercocarpus (4/20), Purshia (1/2)
ULMACEAE:
Aphananthe (1/5), Celtis (2/80), Parasponia (3/6), Trema (2/30)
Note: First number is the number of species validated as NFT's; second is number of species in the genus.
References:
Brewbaker, J.L., K.B. Willers, & W. Macklin. 1990. Nitrogen fixing trees; Validation and prioritization. "Proceedings of IUFRO Congress," Montreal, Canada. Publ. by IUFRO, Vienna, Vol. 2: 335-349. (Reprinted in Nitrogen Fixing Tree Research Reports 8: 8-16. 1990.)
de Faria, S.M., G.P. Lewis, J.I. Sprent, & J.M. Sutherland. 1989. Occurrence of nodulation in the Leguminosae. New Phytol. 111: 607-619.
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Post by oxbowfarm on May 9, 2012 9:50:19 GMT -5
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Post by MikeH on May 9, 2012 10:22:57 GMT -5
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 9, 2012 12:21:32 GMT -5
I was TRYing to use the USDA database Mike, but... well... see... I'm a twit. It had no clue what I was talking about and kept telling me. "YOU, are a twit!"
That's pretty darn informative though, I must say! What part tells you it fixes nitrogen? I'm guessing it's the C/N ratio, 4th line under Morphology/Physiology?
Wow, Schumacher is a fabulous catalog! Have you had any history with them? THANKS for the link!
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Post by MikeH on May 9, 2012 15:49:35 GMT -5
I was TRYing to use the USDA database Mike, but... well... see... I'm a twit. It had no clue what I was talking about and kept telling me. "YOU, are a twit!" Boy, is your gov't ever rude to its citizens. ;D Ours tends to ignore us. 4th from the bottom. Relative values are defined here - plants.usda.gov/charinfo.html#nitrogen_fixation |
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 9, 2012 20:08:47 GMT -5
OooOoo well DUH! ::rolls eyes:: Couldn't be a whole lot clearer than that!
Hey, our gumment is... is... ummm... Ya know. My mommy told me that if I couldn't say sumthin nice, I should keep my flappin yap shut.
=o| <-- Jo, desperately trying to be quite.
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