Bothered by Cytoplasmic Male Sterility

[ottawagardener]

Saw your article on mother earth news Joseph.

For those looking for descent OP broccoli, I've had good luck with Nutribud.

I suspect that the reason that it is not being talked about is that a surprisingly large number of people don't really understand much of the technology involved in various agri-breeding.

[donald]

My wife and I are organic vegetable farmers in Hopkinton, MA.
CMS cell fusion hybrids are used by organic farmers due in part to their demand by consumers and lack of organic OP seed options.
If these CMS cell fusion hybrids are labeled as GM what impact will that have on the global market demanding GMO labeling?

And what are your thoughts on the matter.

This is the USDA NOP statement on cell fusion:
However, the NOP further concludes that cell fusion (including protoplast fusion) is not considered an excluded method when the donor cells/protoplasts fall within the same taxonomic plant family, and when donor or recipient organisms are not derived using techniques of recombinant DNA technology.

Please see:
www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5102380

This is what Monsanto is doing with cell fusion:
www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/01/new-monsanto-vegetables/

[nicollas]

Mar 29, 2014 7:58:08 GMT -5 donald said:

My wife and I are organic vegetable farmers in Hopkinton, MA.
CMS cell fusion hybrids are used by organic farmers due in part to their demand by consumers

I dont understand. People just go around farmer markets and are like "damn where are all the CMS cell fusion hybrids crops ?"

[billw]

Mar 29, 2014 9:59:32 GMT -5 nicollas said:

I dont understand. People just go around farmer markets and are like "damn where are all the CMS cell fusion hybrids crops ?"

LOL

[nathanp]

That Wired article is totally misleading if they are speaking of Monsanto's CMS fusion crops as "natural". Just because the GM material comes from the same or similar species does not mean it should not be labeled.

I understand the concern you are raising Donald, but I feel that any GMO material should be labeled. Even if it is grown locally or purchased through a farmer's market.

GMO crops are currently not required to undergo any long term testing, so until the point in time where they are submitted to such tests and prove they are not harmful or cause allergic responses, I do not consider them safe to eat. For me or my animals.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Politics is off-topic to this forum. Because some of the links posted by donald were to political documents, I'll be invoking a moderator's privilege to make sure that the discussion stays focused on the farming, genetic, and social aspects of this topic.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

donald: Welcome to the forum. Do you plant crops that were created with Cell Fusion Male Sterility? Are your customers OK with that? Do they even know? Would they care if they did find out? Do you even know what you're planting? Regardless of what your certifying agency claims, do you personally find cybrids compatible with organic standards? Do you find CMS in general in harmony with organic principles? Do you have to grow cell fusion CMS hybrids? Are there no alternative hybrids available to you that were created by other means such as self-incompatibility? Are there no open pollinated alternatives that would work on your farm? Have you developed your own varieties? If not I highly recommend it. The varieties that I have developed for my own farm, climate, and way of doing things are much better suited to my purposes than the most magical newfangled cybrid that I could buy from a mega-corporation.

I grew CMS carrots for years. I didn't know. My customers didn't know. Nobody cared. Today I care. Today my customers are still not asking and most wouldn't care one way or the other. Most don't even care that I grow without -cides. I'd rather put in a little more labor than apply poisons to my food. I choose to grow crops that are biologically whole.

From a philosophical point of view, I think that it is a bad agricultural practice to base a farming system on the purchase of partially sterile seeds created by industrial factory/farms thousands of miles away. Too much can go wrong with such a complex system. There is so much hubris involved in converting farmers into cogs in a machine and providing them with seeds that are incapable of reproducing. What extreme pride or self-confidence. What a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence. One of the reasons that I have developed my own vegetable varieties is that it's an insurance policy for me. I have seed that is perfectly adapted to my growing conditions and I do not have to rely on a highly complex supply chain. I grow enough seed for my village. I can't protect myself from the golden-hoard, but my village might be able to protect me.

From a morality point of view, I think that it is immoral to base an agricultural system on sterile plants. Especially when alternatives are readily available.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Mar 29, 2014 9:59:32 GMT -5 nicollas said:

I dont understand. People just go around farmer markets and are like "damn where are all the CMS cell fusion hybrids crops ?"

Congratulations nicollas: I'm awarding you a gold star for that one... Oh my heck. I'll be laughing about that for years.

[oxbowfarm]

Mar 29, 2014 7:58:08 GMT -5 donald said:

My wife and I are organic vegetable farmers in Hopkinton, MA.
CMS cell fusion hybrids are used by organic farmers due in part to their demand by consumers and lack of organic OP seed options.

My wife and I are organic vegetable farmers in Erin, NY. I totally disagree that CMS cell fusion hybrids are demanded by the public. For the most part the public DOES NOT CARE if the crops you grow are hybrid or OP. In fact, there is a slight social premium attached to OP crops by a segment of the public that is actually aware of the issue. But the overwhelming majority of customers have no clue about the genetics of crop plants and could care less.

Organic farmers use hybrid seeds because they often grow better, and more consistently than OPs. Seed producers use cell fusion CMS and natural CMS because it makes hybrid seed production much cheaper and easier.

One of the biggest problems with USDA Certified Organic is the way in which the word "Organic" is systematically dumbed down and diluted from the public perception of what the term. I have every confidence that if the general organic buying public were educated into what cell-fusion CMS was, they would consider it a genetic modification.

The frustrating thing is that it is very difficult, even impossible in some cases, to find out if a particular hybrid is cybrid or not.

[12540dumont]

As an organic farmer you have to ask yourself questions that the new Organic Laws which were formulated for Big Milk, Big Lettuce and some other folks we never equate with organic, have allowed.


What responsibility as an organic farmer do you have for the health of bees?

On my own farm, the answer to that question is I'm in charge. The buck stops here, because the bees stop here.

Bees need pollen, it's my responsibility to have it and lots of it. It may not be convenient for me to leave standing crops that are in flower, but if they are full of bees, wasps, lady bugs, etc. I let them stand until there's something else for them to eat.

I'm pretty black and white.

My question is always, does this help or hurt the farm/environment in the long run?

If the answer is that well I'm really doing this for my own convenience...that doesn't cut the corn.

I'm really just passing through, a grain of sand, one of the so many million, just one more. The bees have been here maybe 36 million years. Since I'm just passing through, I owe it my hosts to leave the hostel just a bit better than when I checked in.